Posted on 05/01/2024 1:01:10 PM PDT by RomanSoldier19
“”””Get outta here. The Russians attacked on September 17, 1939 and Warsaw surrendered September 27. Poland means to say Big Daddy will defend it. Poland had signed a military alliance with Britain and France on March 31. They expected big brother to come to their aid. They miscalculated.””””
Hitler attacked Poland on the first and his partner the Soviet Union attacked on the 17th, Poland was no match for all that WWII power but they put up a bloody fight and suffered great losses.
It isn’t American or NATO propaganda to point out Poland’s incredible military buildup to face a possible attack from Russia, it is expensive and massive.
A Russian propagandist would try to pretend it wasn’t true though and in general mock our sides capabilities and actions taken for improvement.
and why do you keep leaving Hitler’s huge German army out of the 1939 conquest of Poland?
Poland is arming itself to the teeth. It has some of the largest delivery orders for new combat gear, on the whole planet - funded and contracts signed.
When 18 HIMARS in Ukraine became a problem for the Russian Army, Poland contracted to buy (literally) 468, and started building their own factory for the ammo, using “Operation Warp Speed”- like special measures. Since delivery would take several years for all those HIMARS launchers, they also contracted for an additional 288 South Korean equivalent, ammunition compatible Chunmoo launchers, which have also already begun delivery.
A thousand new Main Battle Tanks. A thousand of the latest and greatest anti-ship cruise missiles (Russia can kiss goodbye any ship within 200 miles of Kaliningrad, in a conflict). All top of the line equipment, as fast as the factories can make them.
Every month that goes by, Poland grows relatively stronger, as it compares to Russia’s military. Russia’s fleets of old combat platforms are shrinking fairly rapidly in Ukraine, as Poland surges to become a new regional Military power.
Peter Navarro once said that in the future, Russia and Germany would have an alliance.
"Poland Asserts Its Strength" to Russia is as hilarious as a blithering zeeper gasbag going on about Poland's massive military buildup. Poland would be a gnat compared to Ukraine, and Ukraine is being mauled.
https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.php
The Polish is ranked #21, behind #20 Spain and #19 Germany. It has 100,000 Army personnel. It is not a major player. Its power is to invite U.S. bases, equipment and personnel; and invoke NATO Article 5, if attacked. It hasn't been attacked.
A Russian propagandist would try to pretend it wasn’t true though and in general mock our sides capabilities and actions taken for improvement.
"Poland Asserts Its Strength" is not the United States or NATO asserts its strength. A zeeper gasbag would make believe Poland can assert Polish strength to Russia and induce fear. The United States is the military power of NATO. All Poland could assert is the power of its Daddy.
and why do you keep leaving Hitler’s huge German army out of the 1939 conquest of Poland?
Because the headline cites Poland and Russia and does not mention Germany. The Russian conquest only took ten days. Germany was slower, so the whole thing was called the September Campaign. Why do you keep leaving out the Slovak Republic. The Slovak Republic was a part of the team, don't keep forgetting the Slovak Republic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Poland
The Invasion of Poland, also known as the September Campaign, Polish Campaign, War of Poland of 1939, and Polish Defensive War of 1939 (1 September – 6 October 1939), was a joint attack on the Republic of Poland by Nazi Germany, the Slovak Republic, and the Soviet Union; which marked the beginning of World War II.
[Ansel12] "Poland was no match for all that WWII power but they put up a bloody fight and suffered great losses."
[George Patton] "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
Poland is still no match for Russia.
It was the USSR.
Poland is just one of the 32 NATO nations and the nation that President Trump moved V Corps European headquarters to when he reactivated the American Corps, to get it better positioned against Russia.
It isn’t American or NATO propaganda to point out Poland’s incredible military buildup to face a possible attack from Russia, it is expensive and massive.
Poland’s massive military buildup
“The government decided much more was required. In 2023, Poland estimates it will spend more than 4% GDP on defense, which would be the highest proportion in NATO, as well as the highest proportion of the budget spent on equipment (over 50%.)
As Europe’s sixth-largest economy, by far the largest on the Eastern Flank, these figures translate into very substantial increases in personnel and hardware.
The country plans to double its land forces to 300,000. Huge purchases from abroad include 366 Abrams tanks and 96 Apache helicopters from the United States; 980 K2 tanks and 648 self-propelled howitzers from South Korea; hundreds of US HIMARS rocket launchers; many more Patriot air defense systems; 22 UK-made air defense batteries and three UK-designed frigates; as well as 48 South Korean FA-50 combat aircraft from and 32 US F-35 aircraft, complementing its existing fleet of 48 F-16s.”
I don’t know why you talk about a one on one of Russia versus Poland, if Russia attacks NATO it will be facing our (we Americans and our allies) alliance, not invading one NATO member at a time.
Poland does have every intention to live up to President Trump’s confidence in them though.
“The military build-up is on a grand scale and moves Poland to a different league in European defense. The armed forces are now on track to become the continent’s most capable land force, and the anchor of the European Union (EU)/NATO’s Eastern Flank capable of deterring and defeating Russia.”
I don’t know why you talk about a one on one of Russia versus Poland, if Russia attacks NATO it will be facing our (we Americans and our allies) alliance, not invading one NATO member at a time.
"Poland Asserts Its Strength Amid Russian Aggression"
Did Poland have a mouse in its pocket? When Poland asserts its strength, or some zeeper author says that it did, its refers to Poland, not Poland's Daddy.
If Poland attacks Russia it is on its own.
The armed forces are now on track to become the continent’s most capable land force,
The German army ain't what it used to be, and at its height, it lost to Russia. When the German army took on Europe, it took the whole thing except for Russia and sent the British back to Britain. Poland, when it gets its 1,000 Hyundai tanks, will still be no match for Russia, and will not be nearly the second strongest land force in NATO.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1294391/nato-tank-strength-country/
Turkey has 2,229 tanks, Greece has 1,365, and Poland has 569.
Spain, Germany, UK, France, Italy have 1,239 between the lot of them.
Even when Poland gets its 1,000 Hyundai tanks around 2030, it will trail Turkey by a whole bunch. Poland is not getting anywhere near Turkey in military strength. Compared Poland to Turkey there are Air Force 16,500/115,000; Army 100,000/518,000; Navy 12,350/100,000. Poland is simply not a major power, your unlinked, uncited quote to the contrary notwithstanding.
“Russia certainly has no interest in attacking Poland. It’s ridiculous to claim otherwise.”
Nor, presumably, Finland and Sweden...
“Probably but at what cost to NATO countries.”
Likely not much, except for Poland and the Baltic States. The rest won’t help, so it will be good old Uncle Sucker again.
The country plans to double its land forces to 300,000.
Wow! Poland has plans to triple its land forces to become half the size of Turkey's real current land forces.
Wars are fought with what you've got, not what you plan to get years from now. The stuff that has been introduced in Ukraine as game changers have not changed the game in Ukraine. Russian artillery is flattening Ukraine into a moonscape. But NATO has stripped its cupboards bare and there are fewer weapons and spare parts available.
As Europe’s sixth-largest economy....
Dream on.
Poland is 10th in nominal European GDP for 2023, with about 53% of 6th place Spain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe_by_GDP_(nominal)
"This is a sortable list of all European countries by their gross domestic product in billions of US dollars at market or official government exchange rates (nominal GDP), according to the International Monetary Fund."
"Gross domestic product (GDP) is the market value of all final goods and services from a nation in a given year. Countries are sorted by nominal GDP estimates from financial and statistical institutions, which are calculated at market or government official exchange rates. Nominal GDP does not take into account differences in the cost of living in different countries, and the results can vary greatly from one year to another based on fluctuations in the exchange rates of the country's currency. Such fluctuations may change a country's ranking from one year to the next, even though they often make little or no difference in the standard of living of its population."
1. Germany
2. Italy
3. France
4. Italy
5. Russia
6. Spain 1,582.050
7. Netherlands
8. Turkey
9. Switzerland
10. Poland 842.172
Nominal GDP is actual GDP without "adjustments".
GDP PPP takes the actual GDP and adjusts it according to cost of living for a market basket. For illustration, assume the GDP per capita NY is $40,000 and the GDP per capita in MS is $20,000. The New Yorker earns twice as many dollars. But assume the price of everything in NY is double the price in MS. If a can of beans in NY costs $1, then the same can of beans in MS costs 50¢. In their home state, they can each buy the same amount of beans. GDP PPP would find them equal. But if the person from MS goes to NY, he can buy 20,000 cans of beans. If the person from NY goes to MS, he can buy 80,000 cans of beans. PPP does not travel well for the one with lower real, actual GDP.
https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/difference-between-gdp-and-ppp/#
Meaning of GDP NominalNominal GDP measures the economic output of a country using current market prices. It does not account for differences in the cost of living or purchasing power between countries.
Nominal GDP reflects the value of goods and services produced in a country using the prevailing exchange rates. It provides a straightforward measure of a country’s economic size but may not accurately represent the standard of living or relative purchasing power across countries. It is commonly used for international comparisons and to determine the ranking of countries based on their economic output.
Meaning of GDP PPP
GDP PPP adjusts the economic output of a country by taking into account differences in the cost of living and purchasing power.
It calculates the value of goods and services produced in a country based on a common set of prices, usually derived from an international comparison basket. GDP PPP accounts for the fact that the same amount of money can buy different quantities of goods and services in different countries. It provides a more accurate comparison of the standard of living and economic welfare between countries. GDP PPP is often used to compare living standards, poverty rates, and economic well-being across nations.
Poland has nearly the same population as Ukraine, but about 4 times the GDP (nominally, or as PPP) - about half of Russia’s, and 40 times that of Afghanistan, from which the larger Soviet military had to withdraw. Since Poland left the Warsaw Pact and joined the EU, it has generally been the fastest growing economy in the EU.
Poorer Ukraine has already torn through more than half of Russia’s fleets of ground combat equipment since the 2022 invasion.
Russian “production” overwhelmingly consists of pulling old Soviet gear out of storage, and getting it rolling again. That storage is already over halfway depleted, since the 2022 invasion. Two more years at current rates of production and attrition would effectively complete the demilitarization of the old Soviet conventional arsenals of ground combat equipment.
Poland’s economy is rooted in producing machinery (unlike Russia‘ a commodity based economy), and it produces its own military equipment, in addition to the huge orders it has placed with American, South Korean, German and other defense contractors. By far, it has more significantly transitioned its military from old Soviet gear to new NATO gear, than the rest of the former Warsaw Pact. Most Turkish, Greek or Russian tanks, for example, are 50 years old or more, while Poland is loading up on the latest designs, that significantly out gun the older models.
Poland’s “plans” to expand its military, are actually fully funded programs with awarded contracts that are currently delivering significant amounts each month. Poland had embarked on a serious military modernization and expansion program after Russia’s 2014 invasion of Ukraine. In the early months after the 2022 invasion, Poland was a big provider of old Soviet gear to the Ukraine, but its total force structure of modern new gear has continued to expand rapidly throughout this war, net of its contributions to Ukraine.
Since the 2022 invasion, Polish military acquisition has accelerated rapidly - emergency measures were enacted, like President Trump’s Operation Warp Speed activation of the Defense Procurement Act in the USA, or the German program to build LNG import facilities to replace Russian natural gas supplies, (which has already been accomplished).
The correlation of forces between Russia and Poland is shifting rapidly, as Russia incurs historic losses, and Poland acquires military power among the fastest in the world.
The guy doesn’t know or care, he just wants to argue about something with a sneer about Poland and arguing for Russia, but it isn’t clear why or what for, or what his point is.
The best I can tell it is just an emotional tie to Russia and strong dislike for America and our allies who stand in Russia’s way, his posts are getting longer, more rambling, and farther away from making sense.
A lot of countries clearly are concerned about the long range plans of Russia, Finland and Sweden among them obviously, Norway is worried, the Baltic countries are, Poland of course, a whole list of NATO nations are strengthening their forces against the threat, and even Austria and Switzerland are concerned enough to be discussing joining NATO, as president, Trump took aggressive steps to counter the Russian threat.
People who are closest to the problem and most focused on it for survival see real danger and are spending heavily and implementing military draft and manufacturing plans to counter it.
Poland is to assume the Presidency of the EU next year, and the Polish President Duda said the accession process “will be our priority next year under our presidency so that these countries (Ukraine, Moldova, and Western Balkan countries) can become full members of the European Union as soon as possible.”
The guy doesn’t know or care, he just wants to argue about something with a sneer about Poland and arguing for Russia, but it isn’t clear why or what for, or what his point is.
The bloviating gasbag seeks to prop up Poland as some sort of military threat to Russia in case NATO gets a war going to cover for the fact, obvious to every sentient being on the planet, that winning any such conventional conflict will require U.S. Army boots on the ground involvement. The entirety of NATO, minus the United States, cannot win a conventional ground war with Russia. It would require the United States with the draft reinstituted.
Should the war go nuclear, there would be no winner, just lots of losers.
Should NATO foment a ground war with Russia, and the United States joins, there may be a very serious problem if a few other nations join in with Russia.
Nobody needs to argue for Russia, it seems to be doing ok without a cheerleading squad of keyboard commandos waving their pom-poms. Observing that Russia will beat Ukraine is nothing more than not being a military idiot. HIMARS was not a game changer. Abrams was not a gamechanger. Nothing Ukraine has tried has been a game changer. Poland is the new game changer?
The best I can tell it is just an emotional tie to Russia and strong dislike for America and our allies who stand in Russia’s way, his posts are getting longer, more rambling, and farther away from making sense.
Because his statements of alleged "fact" are rarely linked or cited to any source, and are very frequently just the spewing of bullcrap, the best I can tell is that he is just a keyboard commando shill who served with the Blue Falcons.
He appears allergic to research or facts, and addicted to spewing bullcrap that is nonsense on its face, such as Poland poses a military threat to Russia. Poland, the game changer—what a concept.
Poland has nearly the same population as Ukraine, but about 4 times the GDP (nominally, or as PPP) - about half of Russia’s, and 40 times that of Afghanistan, from which the larger Soviet military had to withdraw.
https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.ph
On military firepower, Ukraine is ranked 18th and powerhouse Poland 21st.
https://statisticstimes.com/economy/countries-by-gdp.php
2022 GDP nominal, World Bank160,501 (USD bn) rank 59 Ukraine
690,680 (USD bn) rank 22 Poland
However, Ukraine has been aided by hundreds of billions of dollars from foreign sources while operating as a proxy for the United States. It would not have lasted more than about 90 days without massive infusions of aid. With the full force of NATO behind them, Ukraine is losing badly.
As for Afghanistan withdrawal, the United States again did the emergency evacuation maneuver off the embassy rooftop. The general evacuation from the airport left people behind.
A month after Biden said there was no chance 'you see people being lifted off the roof' of a US embassy in Afghanistan, helicopters rushed to evacuate diplomatsKelsey Vlamis Aug 15, 2021, 8:44 PM CDT
• Last month, Biden said there would not be rooftop evacuations from the US embassy in Afghanistan.
• On Sunday, US helicopters rushed to evacuate diplomats and staff from the embassy in Kabul.
• Biden also said it was unlikely the Taliban would completely overrun the country, which is what happened Sunday.
Here's for your longer term memory loss:
“With the full force of NATO behind them, Ukraine is losing badly.”
Not one NATO jet, nor one NATO troop, has yet been sent to Ukraine. Every single NATO combat unit that was on operational status when Russia crossed the Ukrainian border, is as ready, or more ready than that day. None of NATO’s operational offensive combat power has yet been committed to Ukraine. Ukraine got old Warsaw Pact, Vietnam and Desert Storm leftovers out of storage. Russia’s Arsenal is over half destroyed, and Active Duty NATO has not even showed up yet.
About half of the territory that Russia occupied in the 2022 invasion (from the high point in the fifth week) has been recaptured by Ukrainian forces. Russia has advanced only a few percentage points of that territory since, despite huge losses in personnel and equipment.
Russia has now suffered about 150,000 killed in the current invasion attempt, which is about ten times the fatalities that the Soviet Union incurred during its ten years in Afghanistan, before the Soviets withdrew, and the Soviet Union collapsed.
The “Full force of NATO” would entail thousands of cruise missiles and thousands of air attack sorties, in the opening three days. As we have seen clearly demonstrated in Ukraine, even the oldest decommisioned NATO cruise missiles sail easily past Russian Air Defense, to their targets. The same for F-35s in Syria. Plenty of long range capability stands operationally ready to hit lots of targets in Moscow, from the first hours.
The Russian Military today is about 1/4 the size of the old Soviet Military, and the nations of the Warsaw Pact have since joined NATO. NATO has refreshed its fleets with significantly more capable new combat platforms since the Cold War, but Russia’s few upgrades, like the T-14 Armata tank, or the Su-57 jet, remain virtual display pieces, with only a few dozen actually produced. They still rely on Soviet era systems, many of which they can no longer produce, and most of which has already been lost in Ukraine.
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