'Hydrogen highway' bad route, group says; Alternative fuel championed by governor flawed

Oakland Tribune ^ | 11/20/04 | Harrison Sheppard

[SierraWasp]

Another Schwarzenegger Farce!!!

[EagleUSA]

More subterfuge. They have completely ignored that fact that hydrogen is ALSO AN ALTERNATIVE TO GASOLINE which would help provide for the added competition and needed supply to meet the demands of a healthy economy.

It is true that cars, that are "smogged" up in California are burning gasoline very cleanly now. But the enviro-whackos cannot say that, since they would be out of a job when it comes to inventing more dirty air....

[SierraWasp]

The Great "Hydrogen Highway" Hold-up!!!

You can't do this economically without nuke power and the EnvironMental Communutty has driven the costs of that out of this world, except in France!!!

Funny how the size of CA's economy is compared to France... kinda makes one wonder...

[SouthTexas]

As with many of the alternative fuels, too many "other" issues are not factored in. Things like in the electric cars, the power generation and the battery disposal issues are ignored.

[rellimpank]

--yeah--this one could make the stem cell farce look like small change--

[traviskicks]

But hydrogen is still an emerging science with rapid advances, and it is expected to be cheaper and more efficient in the future, said Michele St. Martin, spokeswoman for the California Department of Environmental Protection.
---

umm... Aren't gasoline engines becoming more and more fuel efficent too. Remember what pollution actually is - wasted energy.

[traviskicks]

V. John White, an adviser to the Sierra Club on clean-air issues, said he is skeptical of findings by the Reason Foundation because of the group's ideological bias.
---

Attacking character instead of their arguments AGAIN!

[glock rocks]

Oxides of nitrogen will be created by internal combustion, a major component of acid rain, hence, the envirals will always have something to whine about, no matter how clean the fuel burns, nor its availibility.

[sefarkas]

Hydrogen will do what nuclear power has already done -- displace oil as an energy source; saving it for petrochemical feedstock. Replacing gasoline will happen when the consumers are faced with high enough prices for gasoline that make other fuels viable options. Someone has to break ground to make hydrogen a viable alternative. If it is too expensive, don't buy it.

[matchwood]

I wonder what this will do to General Motors' plan to have a competitively priced fuel cell car on the highways by 2010?

[FredZarguna]

In discussions with my environmentalist friends and relatives, many of them react to the news that hydrogen isn't really a fuel--simply an energy storage medium, like a battery--with shocked disbelief. This reflects the poor quality of science education in government schools and the unblinking credulity of people determined to believe that "big oil" is the only reason we consume fossil fuels. Unless environmentalists are willing to start burning uranium, hydrogen is going to be produced by natural gas on a small scale, and later, by coal.

[karenbarinka]

Kaleefornyuns sure do have lots of money to burn.

Meanwhile, innocent unborn face murder for medical research...

[upcountryhorseman]

I am sceptical of the Sierra Club and don't trust their
opinions.

[upcountryhorseman]

I am sceptical of the Sierra Club and don't trust their
opinions.

[SierraWasp]

My reason for posting this is... A supposedly "Republican" Governor slipped into office through an unprecedented and historic Recall election, only to foist on us the very dubious crappola the extreme leftist Whackos have tried to corner everyone with for decades!!!

At the very time he's at the Republican National Convention wowing FReepers with his "what a Republican is..." speech, he's signed a bill to work toward locking up all the private land in 1/5^th of CA and blowing smoke up everyone's differential about the "Hydrogen Highway!"

Can't anyone here see how totally absurd Arnold truly is in his bad-acting roll as a "Republican?" Would any of you do business with such a huge "bait and switch" artist? Or would you call the DA and have him charged with GRAND LARCENY???

I want some credible answers from consistent conservative FReepers, right here and right now!!!

[Rightwing Conspiratr1]

Oh and I thought the hydrogen thing was to get off the oil teat. Screw the environment, if I can't drive around in a Hindenburg then I want a friggin nuclear reactor under the hood.

[FredZarguna]

...if I can't drive around in a Hindenburg then I want a friggin nuclear reactor under the hood.

In that case, check this dealer out, I think he's based in Macon, GA:
(No Money Down--Chuck Berry, as modified by Duane Allman)

As I was motivatin'
Back towards town
I saw a Cadillac sign
Sayin' "No Money Down"
So I eased on my brakes
And I pulled in the drive
Gunned my motor twice
Then I walked inside
Dealer came to me
Said "Trade in you Ford
And I'll put you in a car
That'll eat up the road
Just tell me what you want
And then sign on that line
And I'll have it brought down to you
In a hour's time"

I'm gonna get me a car
And I'll be headed on down the road
Then I won't have to worry
About that broken - down, raggedy ol' Ford

"Well Mister I want a yellow convertible
Four - door de Ville
With a Continental spare
And a wide chrome wheel
I want power steering
And power brakes
I want a powerful motor
With a jet off - take
I want air condition
I want automatic heat
And I want a full Murphy bed
In my back seat
I want short - wave radio
I want a color TV and a phone
So I can call up my baby
When I'm ridin' alone"

Yes I'm gonna get that car
And I'm gonna head on down the road
Yeah, then I won't have to worry
About that broken - down, raggedy ol' Ford

"I want four carburetors
And two straight exhausts
I want a nuclear reactor
An' I don't care it costs
I want a railroad air horn
And a military spot
And I want a five - year guarantee
On everything I got
I want ten - dollar deductible
I want a twenty dollar note
I want thirty thousand liability"
That's all she wrote

I got me a car
And I'm headed on down the road
No money down
I don't have to worry
About that broken - down, raggedy ol' Ford

[Carry_Okie]

V. John White, an adviser to the Sierra Club on clean-air issues, said he is skeptical of findings by the Reason Foundation because of the group's ideological bias.

???

HAW, HAW, HAW, HAW, HAW, HAW, HAW!!!

[calcowgirl]

Can't anyone here see how totally absurd Arnold truly is in his bad-acting roll as a "Republican?"

Yes.

Would any of you do business with such a huge "bait and switch" artist?

No.

I want some credible answers from consistent conservative FReepers, right here and right now!!!

Some credible Freepers have been posting supporting arguments for over a year now to expose the folly. But the drum beats on. I'm glad to see the Reason Foundation aid in exposing the Hydrogen boondoggle... now they need to Follow-The-Money!

[nuke_road_warrior]

The fundamental problem is that hydrogen isn't an "alternative fuel." It's an energy distribution an storage system. Hydrogen will always cost more energy to produce than you recover by "burning" it in either an internal combustion engine or in a fuel cell (The Second Law of Thermodynamics always wins). At present, and for the foreseeable future, the total cost of infrastructure and production for a "hydrogen highway" will be more than all but the most dedicated enviros will be willing or able to afford.