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Beijing makes play for Africa
The Sunday Times ^ | November 5, 2006 | Michael Sheridan

Posted on 11/05/2006 2:06:18 AM PST by MadIvan

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To: Harmless Teddy Bear

Why are these commie defenders on an American political forum?


41 posted on 11/05/2006 2:20:31 PM PST by monkeywrench (Deut. 27:17 Cursed be he that removeth his neighbor's landmark)
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To: diesel00
Why are you bringing India into this?

Because they are the major counter balance to the Chinese.

Do you have any idea how many Indians live in Africa? They are not just trading they are going in buying land and living there.

You don't see Chinese, not even in the game parks. You do see a lot of Indians.

42 posted on 11/05/2006 2:22:08 PM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (De inimico non loquaris sed cogites)
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To: monkeywrench

You get three guesses and the first two don't count. :)


43 posted on 11/05/2006 2:23:04 PM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (De inimico non loquaris sed cogites)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear

"More faux-history.

It is amazing that how the defenders of Communist regimes all have the same talking points."

I'd suggest that you take a look at the links bookmarked in my profile as well as my blogsite. You'll find that I'm no defender of Communist regimes.

As for referring to my previous statement as "Faux-History", call it whatever you like, but the fact remains that many of the dictators that have been a pain in our arse, are the ones our governments policies have helped bring to power.


44 posted on 11/05/2006 2:26:47 PM PST by Dr. Marten (http://thehorsesmouth.blog-city.com)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear
I can not only dismiss it but laugh at it. If China wishes to pour money down that rat hole that is their business. Chinese money is going into swiss bank accounts except for a few projects like the mad one's palaces.

Check again. The Chinese are spending considerable amounts of money building roads, ports, dams, railways, hospitals etc all over Africa. If there is anything the Chinese have learned to do in the last decade, it is building basic infrastructure. You are foolish to think the Chinese are willing to see its investments go for nought. The Chinese are the uber-capitalists of the day, and they are getting what they want as we speak. Who is stupid then?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6079838.stm
China is thus willing to invest in railways, roads, ports and rural telephony in various African countries as part of its winning formula for economic development. This is an area considered too risky by many of Africa's traditional partners

http://www.nyinquirer.com/nyinquirer/2006/10/chinas_investme.html
$200 billion in loans and aid flowed into Angola to fund roads, schools, railroads, hospitals, and bridges, all built by Chinese companies, as well as fiber-optic cable and training for telecommunications workers. Angola exports 25% of its oil to China.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China_Business/HK03Cb03.html
China has built a significant presence in Africa, investing about 6.72 billion US dollars by the end of last year, and building ports, railways, roads and dams. It has used soft loans and millions of aid to secure natural resources -- oil and precious metals, to feed its fast-growing economy.
45 posted on 11/05/2006 2:33:30 PM PST by diesel00
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To: SauronOfMordor

Mao [ca. 60 million dead] has never attempted a 'transculturation' - "transcivilization", rather - but functioned fully within the Chinese civ, as a modern day "Son of heaven", albeit in a rather modern garb. One could argue that transcivilizing the Chinese would have taken not 60 million dead but many more.


46 posted on 11/05/2006 2:35:02 PM PST by GSlob
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To: Dr. Marten
When something is factually incorrect then it is faux-history.

Your statement was an out and out lie. The US had nothing to do with bringing Saddam to power.

47 posted on 11/05/2006 2:35:52 PM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (De inimico non loquaris sed cogites)
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To: diesel00
Check again.

No need. I just got back from there in March.

You may believe what the newspaper says. I will believe my not lying eyes.

On the other hand the UK is doing a marvelous job building a very nice road in Kenya. That was another thing that I saw.

48 posted on 11/05/2006 2:39:45 PM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (De inimico non loquaris sed cogites)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear

"Your statement was an out and out lie. The US had nothing to do with bringing Saddam to power."

I didn't say the US brought Saddam to power, but the US DID SUPPORT him during the Iran - Iraq war. That's a fact, Jack.

That's what happens when you rely on short-sighted foreign policy.


49 posted on 11/05/2006 2:40:52 PM PST by Dr. Marten (http://thehorsesmouth.blog-city.com)
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To: MadIvan

Kind of old news. China has been investing quite a lot of dough to develop African resources for quite a few years now.


50 posted on 11/05/2006 2:43:17 PM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts (Mathemeticians are machines that turn coffee into theorems.)
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To: SauronOfMordor

True.Anything the Chinese do in Africa is for the benefit of the CHINESE,not the Africans.
And if Africans thought the WHITE colonialists were brutal and racist,wait till they get a taste of racism Oriental style!


51 posted on 11/05/2006 2:45:05 PM PST by Riverman94610
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To: Dr. Marten
but the US DID SUPPORT him during the Iran - Iraq war.

*sigh* Am I going to have to go through this again? No it is not a fact. Saddam was armed and supported in that war by the USSR, france and China. The US gave him some intelligence during the first part of the war but even that stopped when it was found that he was a sleazy nut ball.

52 posted on 11/05/2006 2:51:22 PM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (De inimico non loquaris sed cogites)
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To: Riverman94610
Anything the Chinese do in Africa is for the benefit of the CHINESE,not the Africans

One does not exclude the other. China needs natural resources and friends. African countries need industrial products, infrastructure and technical help. It is a win win situation.

And if Africans thought the WHITE colonialists were brutal and racist,wait till they get a taste of racism Oriental style!

Chinese are not so stupid as to alienate Africans and made them into enemies. If both sides need one another they will cooperate freely.

53 posted on 11/05/2006 3:23:23 PM PST by A. Pole (Orwell:He who controls the present, controls the past.He who controls the past, controls the future.)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear

and again..you don't see the pattern.

You just pick and choose the points you want to see.

I'd be interested to see how you would explain Castro's coming to power.

The US has a long history of short-sighted foreign policies that continue to bite us in the ass. Period.


54 posted on 11/05/2006 3:28:07 PM PST by Dr. Marten (http://thehorsesmouth.blog-city.com)
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To: A. Pole

You are the eternal optimist,Pole.
I plain don't trust Communists period.
Did you ever read Che's Africa Diaries?He was very contemptuous of African people.Seems they weren't disciplined enough to be "real"revolutionaries.
I think the Chinese just can't help their own racism and sense of superiority when it comes to Africans.
Hell,the Chinese Americans I know will in their moments of honesty tell you that most Chinese think they are more gifted than white people,not to mention blacks and Latinos.


55 posted on 11/05/2006 3:43:25 PM PST by Riverman94610
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To: Riverman94610
You are the eternal optimist,Pole. I plain don't trust Communists period.

Present day Chines has mixed system where people can have their own business and usually they are free to travel. Very different from Maoism or Stalinism. (BTW, I grew up under psot Stalin Communism so I have some personal insight)

And there is a very easy way to prevent Chinese inroads into Africa: Western countries should offer Africa BETTER deal. Simple like that!

56 posted on 11/05/2006 4:05:35 PM PST by A. Pole (Orwell:He who controls the present, controls the past.He who controls the past, controls the future.)
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To: Dr. Marten; Harmless Teddy Bear
[Dr. Marten to Harmless Teddy Bear:] I'd be interested to see how you would explain Castro's coming to power.

I would like to know the opinion of Harmless Teddy Bear about Batista and Somoza.

57 posted on 11/05/2006 4:07:28 PM PST by A. Pole (Orwell:He who controls the present, controls the past.He who controls the past, controls the future.)
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To: MadIvan
Been going on for years, the courtship of China/Africa.

I was in Beijing 10 years ago (and of course since) and even then there were lots of dealings with Africa... and thousands of Africans "on business" in China.

58 posted on 11/05/2006 4:23:50 PM PST by maui_hawaii
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To: Joe Boucher
Actually I think China sent peace keepers for UN force to Haiti a few years go.

It was one of their only foreign deployments ever.

59 posted on 11/05/2006 4:24:47 PM PST by maui_hawaii
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To: SauronOfMordor

Exactly!! China would love to push all Africans into the ocean and make Africa a Chinese continent. Unlimited children will be allowed of course. Might happen in our lifetimes.

China needs lebensraum and Africa fits the bill


60 posted on 11/05/2006 4:27:47 PM PST by dennisw ("For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks” -- Matt. 12:34)
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