Posted on 11/09/2009 6:37:49 PM PST by SJackson
“I’m sure if the Sioux got the land back they would then turn around and give it back to the Cheyenne, Kiowa, Crow, and Pawnee they took it from.”
It’s not about the Sioux, it’s about the US Constitution. We made a treaty under it, and it is our law. You may think we can ignore that law, and enforce only the laws you like, but in the long run you are quite mistaken. That line of thought leads to the alien Muslim Marxist in the Oval Office. We have reaped what we have sowed.
“Sacred” lands?
A Christian fundamentalist would never get away with such a theocratic appeal, and for good reason.
Other fundies get away with it because of multi-cult dogma. Lame.
I had never heard of thi till now. Interesting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois#Influence_on_the_United_States
Influence on the United States
The neutrality of this section is disputed. Please see the discussion on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until the dispute is resolved. (October 2009)
According to a controversial argument sometimes known as the Iroquois Influence Thesis, the Iroquois League was an important influence on the development of the Articles of Confederation and the United States Constitution.[36][37] The Influence Thesis became popular in the 1980s, particularly through publications by Donald Grinde and Bruce Johansen. According to these historians, the democratic ideals of the Great Law of Peace provided a significant inspiration to Benjamin Franklin, James Madison and other framers of the United States Constitution. The popularity of the Influence Thesis culminated with the United States Congress passing a resolution in October 1988, specifically recognizing the influence of the Iroquois League upon the US Constitution and Bill of Rights.[38]
The Influence Thesis has since been rejected by many scholars, however, including experts on the Iroquois and the US Constitution. According to historian Jack Rakove, “The voluminous records we have for the constitutional debates of the late 1780s contain no significant references to the Iroquois.”[39] Scholars of the Iroquois Confederacy who have rejected the Influence Thesis include William N. Fenton and Francis Jennings, who called it “absurd”.[40] Anthropologist Dean Snow writes:
There is, however, little or no evidence that the framers of the Constitution sitting in Philadelphia drew much inspiration from the League. It can even be argued that such claims muddle and denigrate the subtle and remarkable features of Iroquois government.… Yet the temptation to demonstrate that the United States Constitution was derived from a Native American form of government remains, for ephemeral political purposes, too strong for some to resist.[41]
The Indians are immeasurably better off since the evil white man came to this continent. The good chief would be dead 50 years ago if it weren't for the civilization established by the European settlers.
“get over it.”
Get over what? Respect for the law under the US Constitution? So many people have already “gotten over it” that we are now on the edge of becoming a banana republic, if that isn’t an unwarranted insult to a fine fruit.
“I pray that gets completed.
What an incredible undertaking - quite a story”
By all means let’s have a national memorial to a savage murderer whose raids killed hundreds of United States military. sarc
Then again maybe now isn’t the best time for that.
“Uhm, I guess that’s where the Supreme Court came in.
Courts, I remember they were mentioned in the Constitution too.”
Yes, they did such a great job in Dred Scott v. Sanford and Roe v. Wade, lets let them do all of our thinking for us.
No thank you.
While you can read them online, nothing beats having a really good copy to hold in your hand. I would recommend buying your own highly.
Makes the rest of this sound really silly.
I thought we were talking about the Constitution?
Now we are talking about whether you like the outcome or not?
Quite a shifting standard.
Get over the complaining about things that happened 100 years ago. It is the picking at the scab of historical wrongs that have nothing to do with people living today, that really bothers me. All it does is cause division.
The Sioux basically run everything in the Black Hills. They are the majority population and have all sorts of government freebies. In today’s world, that is the best that they can hope for.
They can’t stop the rest of the world from advancing. They can only stop themselves.
“I thought we were talking about the Constitution?”
It seems you dislike the Sioux Indians (probably with good reason), and so think it is fine their land was stolen, however it was accomplished with color of law.
Unfortunately the practice of government ignoring plain English to subvert the law for political ends becomes habit forming, and leads to the terminal mess we are currently in. I’m really tired of writing the obvious, so I will end here. Thank you for your time and attention.
I said this was interesting, I didn’t say I agreed with it. Congress did pass a resolution on it though.
http://www.senate.gov/reference/common/faq/Iroquois_Constitution.shtml
Is it true that . . . The Senate passed a resolution on September 16, 1987 stating that the U.S. Constitution was explicitly modeled upon the Iroquois Constitution?
The answer is no. However, the Senate did pass a resolution acknowledging the contributions of the Iroquois Confederacy of Nations to the development of our Constitution and reaffirming the continuing government-to-government relationship between Indian tribes and the United States established in the Constitution.
The facts: Senator Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii) introduced S.Con.Res. 76 on September 16, 1987. Representative Morris Udall (D-Arizona) introduced similar legislation in the House of Representatives as H.Con.Res. 331. The House agreed to H.Con.Res. 331 on October 4, 1988 by a vote of 408-8, and the Senate agreed to H.Con.Res. 331 by voice vote on October 21, 1988.
Read the text of H.Con.Res. 331 as passed by the Senate and House in 1988.
Chef Red Cloud needs to explain if it became sacred before or after the Lakota pushed the Cheyenne out of the area in the 1700s. The Lakota have had access to the Black Hills for about the same length of time as whites, predating them by decades at best.
You can’t sell what you don’t own.
It's straight out of the tenets of the Iroquois League of Nations - and the advice given to Franklin, Madison, Jefferson etc by the Indian chiefs - to form a UNION of the 13 colonies - as together are much harder to break than standing alone - even though each colony should maintain it's own sovereignty, they should have a UNITED front to protect one another from enemies.
Visit Pine Ridge and see what utopia looks like.
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