Posted on 04/03/2003 11:57:02 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
U.S. keeping eye on Chavez moves - Senators told of trend toward authoritarianism in Venezuela *** WASHINGTON -- Directing unusually blunt language at Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, the top U.S. military officer in Latin America said Thursday he sees a trend toward authoritarianism in the troubled country. Gen. James. T. Hill, head of the U.S. Southern Command, gave his assessment of the situation in Venezuela during an appearance before the Senate Armed Services Committee. ***
Hugo Chávez and the Limits of Democracy*** The 21st century was not supposed to engender a Latin American president with a red beret. Instead of obsessing about luring private capital, he scares it away. Rather than strengthening ties with the United States, he befriends Cuba. Such behavior was supposed to have been made obsolete by the democratization, economic deregulation and globalization of the 1990's.
Venezuela is an improbable country to have fallen into this political abyss. It is vast, wealthy, relatively modern and cosmopolitan, with a strong private sector and a homogeneous mixed-race population with little history of conflict. Democracy was supposed to have prevented its decline into a failed state. Yet once President Chávez gained control over the government, his rule became exclusionary and profoundly undemocratic. Under Mr. Chávez, Venezuela is a powerful reminder that elections are necessary but not sufficient for democracy, and that even longstanding democracies can unravel overnight. A government's legitimacy flows not only from the ballot box but also from the way it conducts itself. Accountability and institutional restraints and balances are needed. The international community became adept at monitoring elections and ensuring their legitimacy in the 1990's. The Venezuelan experience illustrates the urgency of setting up equally effective mechanisms to validate a government's practices.
The often stealthy transgressions of Mr. Chávez have unleashed a powerful expression of what is perhaps the only trend of the 1990's still visible in Venezuela: civil society. In today's Venezuela millions of once politically indifferent citizens stage almost daily marches and rallies larger than those that forced the early resignations of other democratically presidents around the world. This is not a traditional opposition movement. It is an inchoate network of people from all social classes and walks of life, who are organized in loosely coordinated units and who do not have any other ambition than to stop a president who has made their country unlivable. Two out of three Venezuelans living under the poverty line oppose President Chávez, according to a Venezuelan survey released in January.***
And Democrats want to be called Progressives. So what? Communists are terrorists. But in a world that gives Jimmy Carter a peace prize, I can see the confusion.
Last? This dicator has oil.
I can die my hair blonde but that won't change the fact that I'm a redhead.
Standard LIBERAL line.
What Empire are we building? I must have missed that.
LOL!! That's the spirit!! Preemptive strikes all around!! A US flag on every capitol building and if not a US flag, one that's receiving foreign aid to the point that they're in debt to us for life. Sheesh, you people would follow a man to Hell and back as long as he was a Republican!!
Take note, the British did it, the French did it, the Romans did it, the Greeks did it, and the Persians did it before them. You can call it what you want, you can slap whatever coat of paint on it you want, but if it looks like an Empire, if it talks like an Empire, it's an Empire
Oh, well then, that's a tiger of a different stripe. Get this SOB in line and quick!! We can't stop oil from flowing now can we? It's not like we've got tons upon tons of the stuff in one of our own states now is it?
Darn it!! I thought I was hiding pretty good. You've got me, I must be a liberal. I'm so liberal, the Republican party left me when they picked up stakes and moved from the right to the center to win votes instead of standing on principle. Yep, that's me, Mr. Liberal. Does anyone bother with historical fact around here? Does anyone not think that one nation has ever taken the lead and encouraged their form of government on a worldwide basis up to the point and including war to get their form of government in place? That the good ol' U S of A is the first one ever to do this? Rome? Every road leads? Bells ringing are they?
I'm not being shrill, I'm just taking your argument to the logical conclusion. As I've said many a time (although some 'conservatives' don't apparently care) if you can't find it in the Constitution, then don't do it. Preemptive strikes are not in the spirit of the document or of the men that wrote it
Personally, I don't want a communist nation in the Western Hemisphere. But since the Monroe Doctrine doesn't cover it, then no it's none of our business. But hey, that won't stop us, right?
I know this is going to come as a major shock to you, but have you ever thought that not everyone in the world sees 'our' type of freedom as the freedom they want in their own country? Contrary to America is A number one doctrine, there are some parts of the world that wouldn't do well under 'freedom', at least our type of freedom. Democracies in the Middle East probably won't work very well, just based on the fact that there have been rather strong theocracies there for many a year, but by gum we'll shove it down their throats and they'll like it eh? We've got a Republican doing it now and he'll do it right!!
You should probably know that I don't use /sarcasm tags. Ruins the effect.
FWIW, there are several problems with your arguments Billbears. Although I am somewhat reluctant to post after Balck Elk because my logic and reasoning pale in comparison, here goes.
1) I might agree with the majority of your points if this was still the U.S.A pre- Wilson. I believe George Washington had it right when he said we should not become entangled in the affairs of others. The problem is the train left the station under Wilson's watch. Now we are involved. Since no one else has the fortitude, principals, or might to correct injustice it falls on us. The Taliban, Hussein, Castro, Mugabe, Chicom containment, etc...became our problem once we ventured forth from our borders. Maybe we would be better off sticking our head in the sand and ignoring the oppression, raping, torturing, and murdering that happens on a daily basis. I think the people from Chile, Afghanistan and Iraq would disagree with you. The people of Cuba have suffered needlessly for over 40 years because that coward JFK would not let the planes off the carrier to back up the freedom fighters during the Bay of Pigs. You say we shouldn't get involved. Well we didn't. Ask my Father-in-law who gets misty eyed every time he sees a picture of his hometown in Havana and did several years in a prison camp if those planes wouldn't have helped.
2) What empire building? I guess I missed that. We could take Canada and Mexico in the blink of an eye-but we don't and never will. I would say that they pose a greater threat to us. When we liberated Kuwait what did we do with the oil wells? We gave them right back. When the jubilant marines took the city in the south of Iraq (the name of the town escapes me) and raised a flag what happened? It was down within hours.
3)The Monroe Doctrine does apply. You have to read between the lines.
BlackElk, I'll have to remember that when someone tries to intrude upon our national sovereignty.
Billbears, you should know better. There's a new Monroe Doctrine in town--one implemented up by none other than master neocon William Kristol:
The Project for the New American Century is a non-profit educational organization dedicated to a few fundamental propositions: that American leadership is good both for America and for the world; that such leadership requires military strength, diplomatic energy and commitment to moral principle; and that too few political leaders today are making the case for global leadership.The Project for the New American Century intends, through issue briefs, research papers, advocacy journalism, conferences, and seminars, to explain what American world leadership entails. It will also strive to rally support for a vigorous and principled policy of American international involvement and to stimulate useful public debate on foreign and defense policy and America's role in the world.
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