Anything into Oil(solution to dependence on foregn oil?)

DISCOVER Vol. 24 No. 5 ^ | May 2003 | Brad Lemley

[m1911]

LOL. Good points. Somehow the Luddite faction is NOT going to dig this though. I guess instead of trying to outguess them I'll just let them come up with their own insanity.

[spodefly]

If a 175-pound man fell into one end, he would come out the other end as 38 pounds of oil, 7 pounds of gas, and 7 pounds of minerals, as well as 123 pounds of sterilized water.

The moral of the story: don't fall in, lest we extract your 'net worth'.

Very interesting article and a very hopeful technology BUMP.

[honway]

The fly in the ointment is that you might need more energy than can be recovered from the fuel you make.

With math like that I am not surprised this approach appeals to you

Let me be more clear, since you seem to be having trouble with the concept here.

Garbage which would otherwise end up in a landfill goes in one end. More energy is produced in a useable form (oil and gas) than is consumed in the process. That is a good thing.

Is that simple enough for you, or would you like more help?

[Tunehead54]

Re Bush quote source:

Public Partnerships

I recall this as being a public - pro-energy development speech within the last 6 months.

[Junior]

A definite bump.

[Question_Assumptions]

With math like that I am not surprised this approach appeals to you. My original statement is correct: 100 BTUs in (feedstock); 85 BTUs out (useful energy).

The point is that it is 100 BTUs of waste material (not useful energy) being run through a process to turn it into 85 BTUs of fuel (useful energy). Given that the waste material is waste, that's like putting rocks into a blender and getting oil for the energy needed to run the blender. 15% is incredibly efficient. FYI, normal chemical-to-electrical power plants lose about half the energy during the conversion.

[DeSoto]

This is the thread I was telling you about.

[js1138]

So long as the efficiency is < 100% (which it must be) you cannot get 'something for nothing'. That 15% simply means you are putting in 100 Btus and getting 85 back as fuel.

The raw materials aren't "nothing". They are carbon-based products that could burn even without processing. The fact that they are waste products -- some very difficult to dispose of -- would make this process desirable even at lower efficiencies. Recall the controversies over incenerators. If this is cleaner than incenerators, it will be useful even if it only partly pays its way.

My one big question revolves around heavy metals. When you grind up computer monitors, what becomes of the lead in the CRTs?

[js1138]

I wonder if the homeless tribe could be weaned away from shopping carts into harvesting kudzu. And what about leaves and yard waste? right now the lawn services in my neighborhood sweep yard waste illegally into the storm sewers.

[m1911]

Even better - miniaturize this process and as your mower cuts the grass, it goes into the hopper and is processed back into fuel for the engine and fertilizer for the yard!

Before anyone explains economies of scale to me, I'm joking here

[Our man in washington]

So let's keep a running scoreboard:

ENVIRONMENTAL IMPROVEMENTS BROUGHT ABOUT BY PEOPLE LOOKING TO MAKE A BUCK vs. ENVIRONMENTAL IMPROVEMENTS BROUGHT ABOUT BY ENVIRONMENTALISTS.

The "make a buck" crowd currently has a huge lead, and may be about to pile it on.

[js1138]

You are joking, but I am not. Even a break even process for converting organic waste into something other than landfill would be a wonder.

[zeugma]

I realize you are joking here, but I would be interested in how small they could make this process and still have it pay off. If you could set up a reasonably small facility, it could even be solar powered, as heat is something that can be harvested rather well. Anyone who has ever sat in a car that was parked outside of the shade in texas during the summer can readily attest to this :-)

I think it would be pretty cool (so to speak) to be able to feed a (relatively) biomass of some kind (leaves, lawn clippings etc) and have it, by using a solar concentrator, produce oil for you. Granted, here in texas, we don't have much use for heating oil, but I'm sure you could use it to run a generator of some kind. I'd gladly take the yard-based waste from my neighborhood and turn it into a readily salable and transportable petrolium product.

[js1138]

A quick google search on thermal depolymerization will turn up dozens of articles, including some on the turkey waste plant under construction. The folks building the plant are not promising a profit. They are doing it for efficient management of waste, with the hope of eventually breaking even.

In my opinion, any new technology that manages to break even in its first commercial application can probably be improved to the point of being profitble.

[honway]

http://www.forester.net/mw_news_030416_cwt.html


Changing World Technologies Debuts First Commercially Successful Thermal Process to Convert Organic Waste into Clean Energy

West Hempstead, NY, April 8, 2003 - Changing World Technologies, Inc. announces the first commercially successful application of thermal technology to convert organic waste into clean energy. Building on scientific research dating to the 1920s and human history extending from the Stone Age, CWT has patented, tested and deployed a technological process that has been awarded $12 million in grants from the US government and produced a joint venture with ConAgra Foods, Inc.

Utilizing low-value waste by-products such as tires, plastics, municipal sewage sludge, paper, animal and agricultural refuse as feedstocks, CWT's thermal technology provides a commercially viable solution for some of the earth's gravest environmental challenges, including arresting global warming by reducing the use of fossil fuels, and reforming organic waste into a high-value resource. In addition, it has the potential to substantially reduce U.S. dependence on foreign oil.

[Destro]

If a 175-pound man fell into one end, he would come out the other end as 38 pounds of oil, 7 pounds of gas, and 7 pounds of minerals, as well as 123 pounds of sterilized water.

SOYLENT GREEN IS MADE OUT OF PEOPLE!! IT'S PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!

[m1911]

"Outside, a tanker truck idles, full to the top with fresh turkey blood."

Gives a whole new meaning to "No Blood for Oil", huh?

[Destro]

LOL!

[Junior]

Figured you guys might like this one.

[PatrickHenry]

Figured you guys might like this one.

If I could hook up one of those converters to the back end of each of my dogs, I'd have enough oil around here to light up the whole city.