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"The Invincible Spirit, Rising Again from the Midst of the Flames" — The gruesome death of the Iroquois Christian, Pierre Ononelwaia
Gloria Romanorum ^ | September 23, 2022 | Florentius

Posted on 09/22/2022 9:53:45 PM PDT by Antoninus

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For those tempted to apologize for missionary activities among the Native peoples...don't. The amount of depravity and human suffering that went on among the Eastern Woodland tribes before the arrival of Christianity is incalculable.
1 posted on 09/22/2022 9:53:45 PM PDT by Antoninus
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To: Antoninus

Bookmark


2 posted on 09/22/2022 10:02:27 PM PDT by Southside_Chicago_Republican (The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog. )
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To: Antoninus

I wish I had not read it.
I’d forgotten just how barbaric such tribes were back then.
But then, human being still are quite capable of treating each other in horrible ways.
The difference tween these Indians back then and MS13 gang members today, stemming from Guatamala, and now in parts of the USA, is that the MS13 gang members tend to hide from the law. The Indians of that place and of that time had nothing to flee from except the occassional Colonist, who carried weapons not known to these Indians.


3 posted on 09/22/2022 10:20:21 PM PDT by lee martell ( )
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To: Antoninus

I have heard of the barbarity of many Native American tribes.

So much for the peaceful, happy savages myth.

Man without God, in the hands of Satan are neither peaceful not happy, no matter what the race or nationality.


4 posted on 09/22/2022 10:35:25 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith….)
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To: Antoninus

Gruesome and cruel indeed

Thank you for sharing


5 posted on 09/22/2022 11:07:04 PM PDT by Nifster (I see puppy dogs in the clouds )
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To: metmom

True words


6 posted on 09/22/2022 11:08:15 PM PDT by Nifster (I see puppy dogs in the clouds )
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To: Antoninus; All

It got better for them after the pale faces showed u? Overwhelmingly the Indian tribes were destroyed by the blessings of civilization and what was called Christianity. The first physically destroyed the Indian tribes the latter destroyed the Indians psychologically. We pale faces can enjoy the fruits of our victory without a lot of sanctimonious psalm singing and self congratulation on our great virtuousness.


7 posted on 09/22/2022 11:23:55 PM PDT by robowombat (As am I, but it isnot any of my business that the people of GOrth,He looks like the sex all y one )
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To: lee martell

Europeans were just as brutal. A lot better at toning down descriptions of their brutality though, since there weren’t outside observers recording the atrocities, but only fellow Europeans:

Esch, Voes, and Thorn, still held in custody, were questioned again by the ecclesiastical inquisition court, but they refused to recant. They were then handed over to the secular court and sentenced to death. They were taken to Brussels and held until the appointed day of execution on 1523 July 1. New attempts were made meanwhile to get them to renounce. Voes was brought first to the inquisitors, but he refused to recant. Esch also refused to renounce Lutheranism. Thorn asked for an additional four-day period to study the scriptures with respect to his views, and thus he was not executed then with Esch and Voes. Esch and Voes were summarily delivered to the executioner, brought to the marketplace in Brussels, and burned alive.


8 posted on 09/22/2022 11:34:02 PM PDT by piasa (Attitude adjustments offered here free of charge)
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To: Antoninus

Stories such as this one is why I am an adamant supporter of the 2nd amendment. The invention of gun power and the rifled barrel created a weapon that allows the individual to have the ability to repel the mob.


9 posted on 09/22/2022 11:53:36 PM PDT by joma89 (Buy weapons and ammo, folks, and have the will to use them.)
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: Antoninus

What an amazing story. The Indian Pierre was given great strength and comfort by his faith and became a great witness for Christianity to his fellow prisoner and to his enemy.

We are not superior to these depraved, ignorant savages who knew nothing but evil. Our society participants in the brutal killing of thousands of innocent children every day despite having knowledge of Christianity and Western Civilization. Our society knows good and evil but still chooses evil.


11 posted on 09/23/2022 2:20:43 AM PDT by UnwashedPeasant (The pandemic we suffer from is not COVID. It is Marxist Democrat Leftism.)
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To: piasa
”Europeans were just as brutal.”

Even in modern times. Socialism is a modern European religion that takes brutality to an industrial scale, killing by the millions and tens of millions.

12 posted on 09/23/2022 3:00:13 AM PDT by UnwashedPeasant (The pandemic we suffer from is not COVID. It is Marxist Democrat Leftism.)
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To: robowombat
Overwhelmingly the Indian tribes were destroyed by the blessings of civilization and what was called Christianity. The first physically destroyed the Indian tribes the latter destroyed the Indians psychologically.

In the late 1660s the Iroquois village of Oneida--still pagan at the time--had become an absolute mess. Drunkenness, violence. Torture of captives not unlike the scene narrated above. Even measured by pagan morals, they clearly had fallen from the noble example of their ancestors.

A few Oneidas converted and founded a new Iroquois village near Montreal. They basically kept their Iroquoian culture, but they also made a rule that to live it this village, you had to give up your vices and live Christian morality....and they actually expelled other Indians for not upholding it.

Long story short, this village attracted so many Iroquois over the next few years that the original Iroquois villages got jealous and complained they would be entirely depopulated.

Christianity helped save Iroquoian culture. From itself.

13 posted on 09/23/2022 3:56:59 AM PDT by Claud
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To: UnwashedPeasant
Socialism isn't modern at all.

As Will Durant stated in the 1st volume of his "Story of Civilization," the collectivist movement sprang up when the first human tribes and families were formed.

It was a knee-jerk reaction to the meritocracy of successful hunter-gatherers.

The collectivists, just as they did in Jamestown in the early 1600's, demanded an equitable sharing of goods for those less fortunate. And they didn't just demand a share. They demanded that the entire system be constituted as a commune wherein successful individuals were subordinated to the group. In other words, a system in which there was no reward for success.

Though there are no first-hand accounts from the first tribes and families, we can safely surmise that those pushing collectivism were cut from the Bernie Sanders mold, in that though they were quite capable of working, they instead preferred to take a sizeable share of the goods set aside for the "poor."

14 posted on 09/23/2022 4:03:23 AM PDT by RoosterRedux
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To: piasa

A “simple” European burning at the stake was a walk in the park compared to how you’d be treated by an Iroquois mob out for vengeance. The latter is the stuff of nightmares...and they would actually try to keep you alive as long as possible. Also, burning at the stake came after a trial and conviction of a capital crime...it wasn’t practiced on those captured in war as it was among the Iroquois.

I am not sure why people think we are automatically favoring Europeans by bringing this stuff up. We tell the stories of the Roman martyrs in the same way, and for the same reason—to fortify ourselves against persecution. And to show what happens to *any* group of people if they let the devil have sway over their culture.


15 posted on 09/23/2022 4:12:04 AM PDT by Claud
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To: metmom
Man without God, in the hands of Satan are neither peaceful not happy, no matter what the race or nationality.

Exactly.

16 posted on 09/23/2022 4:14:58 AM PDT by Claud
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To: Claud
Christianity helped save Iroquoian culture. From itself.

The book of Judges is an historical account of the following cycle: Israel is in bondage and cries out to God. God sends a Judge to deliver them by way of His power. Israel prospers and turns away from God. God turns them over to themselves. They deliver themselves back into bondage. There are variations, but the cycle is clear and instructive.

The only difference is that the Iroquois had always been turned over to themselves. God delivered them from their self imposed bondage.

I have a concern regarding your statement, "they clearly had fallen from the noble example of their ancestors." It directly implies that there was a prior time when Iroquois behavior was noble. I don't know, but I sincerely doubt it. The general history of native Americans tribes is that they treated each other with utter cruelty and barbarism. It is complete fiction to believe North America was some sort of Shangri-La before outside influence. It was Lord of the Flies on a continental level.

Regardless, the facts we know indicate that Robowombat's statement is well rooted in revisionist history. Dances with Wolves is fun to watch, but it is fiction.

17 posted on 09/23/2022 5:05:15 AM PDT by 70times7 (Serving Free Republics' warped and obscure humor needs since 1999!)
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To: Antoninus

Bump for later.


18 posted on 09/23/2022 5:11:56 AM PDT by super7man (Madam Defarge, knitting, knitting, always knitting.)
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To: piasa

Your example doesn’t even compare to the cruelty of the original story. Also, there’s no evidence those inquisitors enjoyed condemning the heretics. The indians enjoyed their cruelty and made it last as long as possible.


19 posted on 09/23/2022 5:21:23 AM PDT by vladimir998 ( Apparently I'm still living in your head rent free. At least now it isn't empty.)
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To: robowombat
Overwhelmingly the Indian tribes were destroyed by the blessings of civilization and what was called Christianity.

What nonsense. To a large extent, the nations destroyed themselves. Read the history of the Beaver Wars of the 17th century. The Iroquois alone destroyed tens of thousands of their traditional enemies (the Hurons, the Eries, the Neutrals, the Petun, the Susquehannocks, and many others) who had no access to European weapons. They were relentless and merciless, killing and enslaving all within their path.

And the fact of the matter is this: Despite the fact that native peoples were almost wiped out by diseases for which they had no immunity, and fought and lost a war against the Americans, they are still here. In fact, there are more people alive today in the US with native blood than at any time up to the arrival of the Europeans.
20 posted on 09/23/2022 6:23:44 AM PDT by Antoninus (Republicans are all honorable men.)
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