Posted on 09/27/2022 10:53:30 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
That is spurious "cherry-picking" of Scripture. Jesus also acknowledged His own mortal nature while here on Earth -- by repeatedly referring to Himself as "The son of man".
That, in no way, denied his total Deity.
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It appears that you need to [re]read John 1:1.
(That [linked] page gives John 1:1 in all English translations -- and they unanimously state, "was God".)
Serious Bible scholars will note that the blasphemous "NWB" (New World Bible) -- which states: "was a god" is excluded from the list...
BTW, I also should have said, "...and at least 43% of so-called Evangelicals... should read John 1"...
> Jesus took up a physical body to walk in 4D spacetime. He is the source of all of the Universe but to be seen and heard directly He took up a 4D physical body with its limitations. He did not cease to be greater than the 4D body, He just self-limited to such a body. A human cannot see God The Father or God the Holy Spirit because of our physical limitation status. We have aspects that exist in greater dimensional reality (soul and spirit) but we cannot see those, either. The body Jesus now inhabits has real physical abilities beyond our sensing, yet He can and has 'reached across' to our limits so HIS DISCIPLES COULD SEE HIM AND TOUCH HIM.
Some day, SOME WHERE/WHEN, we too who believe in Him will be transformed into the same type of greater dimensional variables real bodies as Jesus now occupies. We will not become gods; Jesus was already God BEFORE He took up a 4D limited body. His origin is God, our origin is from Adam, a created being. Jesus was not and is not a created being. He is and always has been God, a part of the Godhead.
As The Word says, God is Spirit and must be worshiped in spirit and truth. God, as The Word, made all the dimensions and variables, so to sense Him we humans had to have God manifest in our limits well. Jesus Did that, for us.
As I recall, yes.
Yes. I don’t know how anyone who claims to be a Christian can disregard that. It just pops right off the page.
2070?
The Rapture?
Yes, at the Rapture the Holy Spirt will leave the earth.
Chaos will reign, and God will remove the fear of man from animals.
You sure left a lot out.
Why don’t you start a thread with all the gaps filled in?
I don’t agree with your dates or the numbers you use.
No one knows the days or times.
(But we are now in the season.)
Or the numbers of ppl Christians vs non believers.
And a lot of other things in your projection
Study to show yourself approved.
When tou start your thread, ping me to it.
*you
Where did you get that 4D thingie from, what does it mean?
Common parlance now is to say length is a dimension, but it is really a variable expression of dimension space. A photon is a particle of light existing always in linear space. It has a greater aspect we call the wave which exists in planar space, but the particle does niot sense its wave function because the particle of light lacks the greater variable.
I use that analogy to describe our soul and spirit as unseen or sensed by our physical body, relating our soul and spirit existing in variable spacetime expressions our physical body does not have, presently. Our glorified physical body given at the Rapture -when we are transformed int he twinkling of an eye- will have more variables than our physical body now has. Jesus exhibited these greater variables when He appeared in a locked and shuttered room or disappeared from the presence of the two disciples on the way to Damascus, etc.
AFTER the great departure / Rapture of ALL believers, John saw a number come up to Heaven so great he could not number them -but he could count to at least 200,000,000 when he saw the invading army attacking Israel! It is during the first half of the Tribulation that the greatest revival will happen, not before. There is a Dead Sea Scroll which expresses the notion that God uses the Rapture departure to convince the last doubters, to as it were give lingerers a last chance to ‘believe God and have it counted for them righteousness.’
Prior to the beginning of the Tribulation -time of Jacob's Trouble- God removes ALL alive and dead Believers in Whom His Holy Spirit has been abiding (1 John 3:9) in an event known as the Departure, or Rapture removal. Literally hundreds of millions of Believers alive today will suddenly (in the twinkling of an eye) disappear from the planet.
This event, aside from creating world-wide chaos, will convince an uncountable (for John's counting abilities) number of 'fence sitters' to suddenly believe God and His provision for Adam's descendants, and it will be counted for them righteousness and as they are martyred for their belief they are immediately whisked to Heaven by the Holy Spirit and appear in John's vision 'under the throne of God pleading 'how long Oh Lord'.
People who deny his divinity, especially people who call themselves Christians, are just simply foolish."
Yes, exactly. The corollary to this ecclesiastical axiom is that who that claims himself Christian in the name of Christ, would go so far as to proclaim Jesus as the Great Teacher, and not recognize his Divinity?
What dates?
In took me a minute to find in Jim W N’s post, and I ask that you correct me if I’m wrong. Is this the problem area:
“• Next (in a few decades IMO) – the first part of the second coming of Jesus his saints (the great “catching up” AKA the “rapture” for the church). I believe it might be as many as ½ of the world hinted by Matt. 24:40-41. The projected population of the earth in 2070 is around 9 billion. That could mean that around 4.5 billion go to Heaven and about 4.5 billion are left behind. The Holy Spirt also leaves earth.”
If so, I concur with your post, MHG: strictly Jewish. We’ve all been so wrongly taught for so long with the mingling of the Church with Israel or the outright stealing of Israel’s promises that it’s hard to shake sometimes.
God bless you all.
Exactly where is that in my post?
Please don’t take it personally, Jim W N. I think we all have a great to deal to learn from the Bible and that no one is above another. The problem text in your post is:
“Next (in a few decades IMO) – the first part of the second coming of Jesus his saints (the great “catching up” AKA the “rapture” for the church). I believe it might be as many as ½ of the world hinted by Matt. 24:40-41.”
This portion of Scripture is Jewish. The church that we know did not even exist at this point.
God bless you.
Forgive me, Jim. I think I would have done better by asking you when you believe the Church began.
Let’s try to unravel this.
1) I believe the church was born “when the Day of Pentecost was fully come,” 50 days after Jesus resurrection and 10 days after his ascension to Heaven.
2) Matt. Chapt 24 is Jesus’ end-time prophecy spoken to to his Jewish disciples and focused mainly on Israel. Matt. 24:36-44 is Jesus’ prophesy about the “great catching up” (1 Thess. 4:17) AKA the “rapture”.
Verses 40-41 are clearly a picture of the “rapture”. We know his saints, the church, will be raptured. We also know that believing Jews are saints and part of the church. So in the sense of those included in the raptured church, there IS a mingling of Jew and Gentile as it is written, “the gospel of Christ...is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek (Gentile)” (Rom. 1:16) and “there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek (Gentile): for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him” (Rom. 10:12).
So who is Jesus talking about in Matt. 24:40-41? Well we know he’s talking about the church because he is describing the rapture. In verses 40-41 is he only talking about the Jewish members of the church who will be raptured? I suppose, but it seems like a minuscule point.
I think there might be some confusion between individual Jews and the nation of Israel because God does seem to treat the two differently. God is seeking all, including Jews, for salvation now and many Jews have been saved and belong to the church.
However, we also know that God turned from the nation of Israel who rejected Jesus and turned to the Gentiles 2000 years ago for salvation. And the church is generally thought of as the “Gentile” church even though there are a lot of believing Jews included in the church because of God’s great love and mercy.
However, on another level, God treats the nation of Israel differently from the Gentile nations. God has revealed his specific clock and timetable for Israel - Daniel’s 70 Weeks (unlike the church or the Gentile nations)(Dan. 9:24-27). We also know that for the last 2000 years, we have been in the time between Daniel’s 69th Week and 70th Week.
Here, there IS a difference, because only AFTER Jesus catches the church up into Heaven (which launches Daniel’s 70th Week AKA the tribulation), that “all of Israel will be saved” (Rev. Chapt. 7) fulfilling Romans 11:26.
So the confusion may be mixing up the micro (individual Jews who are receiving Jesus and becoming part of the church) with the macro (the nation of Israel for which God has special plans not to be confused with the Gentile nations).
Hope that helps.
Reminds me of greatly-missed, similar discussions here with Alamo-Girl & Betty Boop...
TXnMA
Your post did help, Jim. Thank you very much.
“So the confusion may be mixing up the micro (individual Jews who are receiving Jesus and becoming part of the church) with the macro (the nation of Israel for which God has special plans not to be confused with the Gentile nations).”
Excellent, and I absolutely agree with you on the Church being made of both Jew and Gentile. I believe the same as you concerning the Nation of Israel for which “God has special plans,” also.
“So who is Jesus talking about in Matt. 24:40-41? Well we know he’s talking about the church because he is describing the rapture. In verses 40-41 is he only talking about the Jewish members of the church who will be raptured? I suppose, but it seems like a minuscule point.”
My point would be that Our Lord is speaking of His Second Coming in the above verses, which is after the rapture, as we are to meet Him in the air and that can’t be if we’re here to meet Him at His Second Coming. The Church is positioned in the Heavenlies, whilst Israel still has an earthly kingdom to come:
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Mat 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Mat 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Mat 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
Mat 24:46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Mat 24:47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
Mat 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
Mat 24:49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
Mat 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
Mat 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Our Lord Christ Jesus will be judging at the time referred to in the passages. The Church is His body and not subject to condemnation.
These verses speak of Our Lord’s return to earth to rule and to reign in His kingdom when Israel will be head of all the nations. Were I Jewish, I would be very much interested in these passages after the Church is raptured. That is my take, and I appreciate that yours may be different.
Since it is not a salvific issue, Jim, I have no desire to butt heads with a brother of the faith, and from your post, I don’t suspect you do either. Either way it is speaking, we will meet either here, there or in the air, so all glory be to God Almighty for His wonderful grace.
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