What 'the state of theology' tells us about America: When asked whether they agreed that “Jesus was a great teacher …but not God,” 43% of Evangelicals answered 'yes'

Thank you for your reply. There is much to be learned here.

FR is among other things, a debate forum and I enjoy a discussion or debate as long as it is good faith inquiry into the truth and both are willing to learn if that’s what’s needed.

(Part of that is a willingness to let go of “pet doctrines” which I’ve had to do (the flesh loves pet doctrines) to learn the truth from God’s Word via the revelation of the Holy Spirit (not fanciful to flesh but the Spirit in you rejoices).)

It seems that the issue of Jew/Israel/Church/Gentile is settled here. At least I think so.

But Jesus second coming now emerges as a possible issue.

I’m happy to talk about it as long as its in good faith as I said. I love this subject maybe because I feel like God has taken me through 50+ years of learning and I want to comfort and strengthen my brethren.(BTW, I’m in the process of writing a book on the ends times which I hope to finish and publish soon.)

Having said all of that and if you’re willing to continue, I’ll ask you a question:

How do you reconcile

“For as the lightning comes out of the east, and shines even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.” Matt. 24:27.

with

“[Y]ou do not know what hour your Lord comes. But...if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.” Matt. 24:42-43.

?

In verse 27 he comes as lightning seen from one end of the earth to the other and in verse 43 he comes as a “thief”, with stealth, who no one sees coming.

If you’re gonna publish a book, you best hurry it up ‘cause the Rapture is getting close. The prophecies in the Revelation have a sort of ‘shelf life’. By that I mean -and JD Farag was the first place this was spoken of, in my experiences- II mean the technology is gaining so fast that if the Lord does notget the Tribulation going soon the choise to take the Mark will no longer at issue. Gates from Hell is already having scientists test the ability to deliver DNA altering mRNA vaccines via aerosol. The Revelation says taking the Mark of the beast which will make one no longer ‘in GOD’S IMAGE’ is a choice. When changing DNA is no longer a choice one can reject, well the prophecy becomes moot ... and we know NO prophecy from God goes by the wayside. And the Rapture removal of God’s Believers, the ones He has born from above, happens before the Tribulation begins. That tribulation begins not with the Rapture but with the signing of the pact with death by Israel. The tribulation according to Daniel and Isaiah is designed to put an end to sin in Israel ... the sin of unbelief regarding their Real Messiah, Jesus.

2070

Several decades mentioned.

You seem to predict that the Rapture is decades away.

When actually it could happen any time.

The Rapture could happen at any time but I have offered reasons why I think certain events need to happen first.

“I love this subject maybe because I feel like God has taken me through 50+ years of learning and I want to comfort and strengthen my brethren.”

Sir, I’m a few decades away from 50+ years of learning the Holy Bible, and I salute you for your study of it. I long to have 50 years of learning it, and hope to still be learning it in eternity.

“How do you reconcile

“For as the lightning comes out of the east, and shines even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.” Matt. 24:27.

with

“[Y]ou do not know what hour your Lord comes. But...if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.” Matt. 24:42-43.

?

“In verse 27 he comes as lightning seen from one end of the earth to the other and in verse 43 he comes as a “thief”, with stealth, who no one sees coming.”

I don’t see it as a conflict, but rather as a matter of expectation on Israel’s part and their waiting for the Lord’s return. Some will be expecting Him when He comes as lightning, and for some His return will certainly be as a thief who comes in the night: unexpected.

Also, at the time of the quoted passages, there was no Church in an Age of Grace, as was later explained to our Apostle Paul. The audience knew only of Israel being head of the nations and to be the ones to lead others to God, so there was no thought of a rapture as we learn about later from the Apostle Paul.

I would propose the following verses for more clarification as to the Church and this issue:

The Coming of the Lord

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

The Day of the Lord

1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

Your thoughts?

“I would propose the following verses for more clarification as to the Church and this issue:”

Jim, please allow me to clarify my clarification: “... for more clarification as the Church and this issue.” That is, the Church of Jew and Gentile awaiting the rapture and as separate and apart from the later and remaining Nation of then-Believing Israel (after the rapture) and any Gentile converts, with promises still to come, and apart from unbelieving Israel and unbelieving Gentiles.

As you already know, there are more groups to consider than just the Church and Israel.

Thank you.

There are more verses written by Paul which relate to this enigma, like 1 Cor 15:51-58. That passage indicates that alive believers at the moment of the Departure will be change in the twinkling of an eye, into higher dimensional beings ... we will disappear from this four dimensional realm as we are then caught up into the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

The Lord descends from Heaven's Throne Room to a location where He gathers the transformed Believers in glorified bodies to Himself, not upon the Earth, and returns to the Father's House. He will not be seen by the world at that event, only the transformed will see Him as He really is (1John3:2). When He comes to touch down on the planet, evry eye shall see Him coming as lightening which circles the planet and impacts on the Mount of Olives. In THAT event, we shall be accompanying Him to Earth.

Amen, MHG.

I don’t know about everyone else these days, but I’m eagerly awaiting the rapture.

If I don’t see it in my lifetime that’s ok too, because I know in Whom I have believed and I thank God for the hope we have within us!

Well, as you go, especially if you are willing to give up certain private ideas in lieu of the truth the Holy Spirit would show you (I’ve had to do that A LOT), you should find that the second coming of the Lord is in two parts.

Part one: The Lord coming stealthily as a thief FOR his saints (Matt. 24:43, Luke 12:39; 1 Thess. 5:2; 2 Peter 3:10; Rev. 16:15), “stealing” his own away from God’s judgment and wrath on the earth as Noah did (Matt. 24:37; Luke 17:26), Jesus being our “heavenly ark” taking us safely to heaven (1 Thess. 4:17) “before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD” (Malachi 4:5; 2 Peter 3:10). No one will see him come. Launches Daniel’s 70th Week AKA the seven-year tribulation (Rev. 4:1).

Part two: The Lord coming as conqueror WITH his saints “as lightning from the east to the west” (Matt. 24:27) so that “every eye shall see him...an wail because of him” (Rev. 19:11:-21; 1:7). Ends Daniel’s 70th Week AKA the seven -year tribulation with the bloodiest of battles, Armageddon (Rev. 19:17-21; 14:20; Matt. 24:28).

(We win!)

Thanks, Jim.

I agree that Our Lord Jesus comes in 2 parts. The only difference is where we believe the rapture is spoken of, so there’s nothing worth contending over as it’s not an issue of salvation.

God bless you and yours, and I wish you a happy weekend.

SC

P.S. We win, indeed!

My Prayer for you: “Consider what I say; and the Lord give you understanding in all things” (2 Tim. 2:7).

God bless.

Thank you, Jim.

Good points, thanks. 👍😎😇❗️

I think that was made clear in the first chapter of Genesis and on through Revelation.