Posted on 08/27/2023 6:35:21 AM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal
Whose errors are you referring to? I’ve gotten lost in the thread.
“That is the absurd position that Preterism takes.
Insane!”
Whole new levels of insanity, in fact.
Dallas Jenkins’ tweets.
As well as the LGBTQ thing of his cast and crew.
Yes
✝️🙏🛐
It looks as though you might be having a problem distinguishing between the Rapture and the Second Advent. The Rapture relates to events surrounding the Church; the Second Advent relates to that which surrounds the return of Christ to rescue Israel. At this point in the ministry of Christ the Rapture had not been introduced. It would be at the Last Supper. THIS IS COMMON KNOWLEDGE.
If you want more “meat on the bones,” do some internet research. Beyond that, stop with the condescending tone. It is quite arrogant and not at all appreciated.
So please take your “meat on the bones” attitude elsewhere.
Thanks for all that help ...
I think I’m clear now.
I may have misread your post. If you weren’t being condescending, please forgive. It is just that preterists often take a snotty attitude.
Here’s some “meat on the bones” attitude, from a minister/religious scholar, who was literally “there”:
The Pre-Tribulation Rapture doctrine is a “Pre-fabrication”, a lie. It arose from the Jesuit counter reformation.
The Hope of Christ’s Second Coming: How is it Taught in Scripture? And Why? Samuel Prideaux Tregelles. March 17, 1864. (attended Edward Irving’s church and eyewitness to Margaret McDonald’s utterances…first time EVER hearing about PTR theory)
“I am not aware that there was any definite teaching that there would be a SECRET RAPTURE of the Church at a secret coming, until this was given forth as an utterance in Mr. Irving’s Church, from what was there received as being the voice of the Spirit. But whether anyone ever asserted such a thing or not, it was from that supposed revelation that the modern doctrine and the modern phraseology respecting it arose. It came not from Holy Scripture, but from that which falsely pretended to be the Spirit of God, while not owning the true doctrine of our Lord’s incarnation in the same flesh and blood as His brethren, but without taint of sin.
“But there is a very different theory of the coming of the Lord as the hope of His Church, which many teach, and which many more receive, as though it were unquestioned truth.”
“It is said that there shall be a SECRET coming of the Lord Jesus Christ; that at this SECRET coming His believing people who are in their graves shall be raised, and the living changed, and that a secret rapture of the Church shall then take place; that this SECRET coming and SECRET rapture are our hope, and not the manifested appearing of Christ in the clouds of heaven.”
“It is said that after this SECRET removal of the Church, the full manifestation of human evil, for some years at least, will take place, during which time shall be the display of the power of Antichrist,—the persecutions foretold in the Revelation, the extreme trials of Israel, the unequaled tribulation,—and that the end of this will be the manifestation of Christ visibly coming with His Church in the cloud of glory.”
“This is the doctrine of the SECRET coming of Christ, which many now preach as if it were the acknowledged truth of God, instead of its being (as is really the case) that which at every point would require proof from Scripture.”
“But not only is this doctrine of the coming of Christ not taught in the Word of God, but if, in what has been previously said, there is any point of truth, then this whole system stands in distinct contradiction of what the Scripture reveals.”
“what the Scripture reveals.”
Thanks
See ... now that’s more like it’
In my reading ( I’m no theologin) I see it like in Mark 13:24.... coming in the clouds.. gathering his elect ..
then bringing down the wrath.
Seems simple .... I don’t see any secret rapture.
If I’m missing it, I’d like to know.
I don’t think it matters what you think about the rapture as far as salvation ... but we are told to watch .. I want to know I’m watching for the right things .
——>I don’t think it matters what you think about the rapture as far as salvation ...
The billions of Christians on earth just before the tribulation, who end up receiving the Mark of the Beast, would probably disagree with you.
Those who believe in the PTR (Pre-Tribulation Rapture) believe that they will be long gone before they meet the Antichrist or have to deal with the MOTB. They won’t have a clue until it’s too late. Their salvation will be lost. There is absolutely no chance of salvation after receiving the MOTB. No second chances.
At the end of the world, everyone receives a “mark”. It’s either the Mark of the Beast, or the Seal of God.
All who believe in the false doctrine of the PTR also seem to believe in the equally false doctrine of Once Saved, always Saved, Once Judged, Always Judged (OSAS/OJAJ). Both come straight from the mind of Lucifer. Those who follow Christ obey God’s commandments/law. It is the standard in God’s judgment. You can bet the farm on it.
Those who believe in OSAS/OJAJ believe that obeying God’s law is optional (or that there is no law for them anymore, since their “Spirit” can’t sin, etc...), since nothing will affect their salvation after grace. No amount of willful, deliberate, unrepentant sin can keep them out of heaven (learn from Ravi Zacharias)
THEY CHOSE POORLY!
And BTW, the Rapture teaching that LITERAL Israel plays any role at the end of the world, is also one of Satan’s lies. That all ended 3.5 years after the death and resurrection of Christ. Satan will definitely use that to fool the masses.
I courtesy pinged you because you were in on the rapture conversation in this thread. Is that straight enough for you?
Not quite. I made it clear a few days ago that I had no further interest in communicating with you. Please respect that.
——>I made it clear a few days ago that I had no further interest in communicating with you. Please respect that.
If you post on a thread, you are fair game to any of the thousands of Freepers who may wish to respond, as long as they do it in a civil and rule-following manner. You may have a point with courtesy pings. Even if you don’t, I’ll refrain from ever sending one to you again. (only courtesy pings). If you receive a response from me to one of your posts, IGNORE IT (ignore me). That way YOU won’t be COMMUNICATING with me. Everyone else does it.
hmmmm .... there is a lot in your post ... a lot that I don't seem to find in the Bible.
But I suppose this first statement is as good a place to start as any.
I see ..
strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Matthew 7:14
Of course I'm just posting a snippet of the text .. I always try to read things in context ... but brevity and such ..
So .. the question “what is a Christian?”
Billions ? Why do you think there are/or will be billions?
“few there be that find it” seems a bit more limited to me.
And no I am not “pinging “ that douche bag.
I just read your interaction with that guy.
It's amazing that someone would get on a thread that discusses and debates Bible doctrine ... the one real issue that matters ... with an attitude like his.
IT sort of ties in with my question ..
What is a Christian?
I see ....
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: John 1:12
What is “received him”?
What did he give them?
What does it mean to “believe on his name”?
I've tried to read some of those commentaries and deep theological study books but it seems like there are just to many differing opinions, I decided I can read as good anybody ... so I just read the Book now.
If it's in the Book ..I believe it.
If something looks contradictory .. it means I'm not understanding correctly.
If something comes up that I don't see... I'm glad to be shown.
Truth is a wonderful thing. The more you examine it, the more it reveals it self.
I had a pastor describe how Christ’s death and resurrection is to Satan how D-Day was to Hitler.
Hitler KNEW (heck, everybody knew) that the success of D-Day meant the defeat of Nazi Germany. Not that Hitler was just going to roll over and surrender, or that there still weren’t battles to be fought with lots of pain and suffering, but that the outcome of the war had been decided.
——>What does it mean to “believe on his name”?
That question is what it all boils down to.
——>Billions ? Why do you think there are/or will be billions?
There are about 2.5 billion Christians on the earth right now, give or take. Since the PTR is a lie, everyone living at the time of the tribulation will be here for the end. Most of them, “billions”, will receive the Mark of the Beast, because they have already been brainwashed by the Antichrist, and will gladly take the Mark when that time comes.
——>So ..the question “what is a Christian?”
Of those who call themselves Christians, who will be in heaven?
What does bible prophecy say about who the Beast/Antichrist power is, and what it’s MARK is?
Revelation 12:17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 14: 11And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. 12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Revelation 22: 12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Ecclesiastes 12:13Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: FEAR God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14For God shall bring every work into JUDGMENT, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
Do you notice a theme in these texts?
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