Adult Baptisms Boom in France and Belgium

You're confusing instrumental causes with meritorious causes. Baptism confers sanctifying grace. Only a soul with sanctifying grace can go to heaven. The sanctifying grace was won for us by Christ at Calvary. It's like confusing a check given as a gift (instrumental cause) with the job which earned the money to make it possible to write the check in the first place (meritorious cause).

Every Catholic baptism involves a profession of faith (by the sponsors if the baptizand is too young to speak for himself).

The thief on the cross is an exceptional case; the need for water baptism describes the normative case. God is not bound by the sacraments and he is free to save people without them.

Folks,

there is a lot of baptism.

Jesus was baptized in suffering. look it up. We all want that baptism, don’t we?

So which baptism are we talking about here?

Act 19:3 “Then what baptism did you experience?” he asked. And they replied, “The baptism of John.”

Now this is Paul asking the question. But it is a proper question to ask now also. Now read the above in context.

Paul in Ephesus

Act 19:1 While Apollos was in Corinth, Paul traveled through the interior regions until he reached Ephesus, on the coast, where he found several believers.
Act 19:2 “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” he asked them. “No,” they replied, “we haven’t even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
Act 19:3 “Then what baptism did you experience?” he asked. And they replied, “The baptism of John.”
Act 19:4 Paul said, “John’s baptism called for repentance from sin. But John himself told the people to believe in the One who would come later, meaning Jesus.”
Act 19:5 As soon as they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 Then when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in other tongues and prophesied.

With water baptism you might get lucky and get wet, maybe a little sweat and dirt removed. It is a SIGN. A sign to who?

The REAL baptism is being BAPTIZED IN THE SPIRIT. Are you? How do you know? Worthy of reflection

By the way, being baptized in the Spirit in not just about speaking in tongues and prophesizing.

It is not a large number, that is true. But it is a good number and a good direction. A high number of young people, not people suddenly looking back on their lives as they realize their mortality.

And at a time when the Church is in turmoil! I know there are people out there who felt drawn to the Faith but who were repelled by the scandals.

And this is how every journey goes: the first step. Well, two feet in a thousand-mile journey is not much! But the small things add up.

We all need to keep praying. I have joined in thr novena posted by ebb tide (iirc), here: https://novena.cardinalburke.com/ I am so happy that those higher up in the Church are finally calling us to prayer about these large world problems!

>> It [baptism] is a SIGN. A sign to who? <<

Ah, the problem if reading posts backwards... I thought you were Catholic from your second post.

The Catholic Church teaches that the sacraments are a sign instituted by Christ to give grace. Baptism is not some sort of symbol of something; it is a real thing in itself. We may “get a little bit wet” physically, but it marks our souls permanently.

We can be fooled by thinking we have been “baptized in the Spirit.” How do we know? How do we know the fruits we take to be of that are not the fruits of something else? But the sacraments are actual and true: we *know* they have happened no matter what our feelings might be.

And thus we have a sacrament for that: Confirmation.

But the sacraments are actual and true: we *know* they have happened no matter what our feelings might be.

Your sacrament means nothing. It is a sign to who? the church? people. You can be fooled by that also. You are not going to tell me because you had water baptism, you are saved, are you?

The true baptism is in the Spirit. Be sure of that. You MUST be born again. How do you know you are born again, baptized in the Spirit? The answer to that is a serious discussion with God and his Word. I repeat, being baptized in the Spirit is not speaking in tongues.

There are four groups of people:

Those that think they are saved and ARE NOT. (The biggest group)

Those that think they are saved and ARE.

Those that think they are not saved and ARE NOT

Those that think they are not saved BUT ARE.

Do not place your faith in WATER BAPTISM. It is a sign, NOT THE REAL THING. Get the real thing.

How do you know you are baptized in the Spirit? God’s New Covenant is a personal relationship with Him. Not an institutional relationship, not a prescription of rules and sacraments.

He tore the curtain, destroyed the temple, removed the priestly system, removed the old sacrificial system.

Man rebuilt the old system. Why?

Act 19:3 “Then what baptism did you experience?” he asked. And they replied, “The baptism of John.”
Act 19:4 Paul said, “John’s baptism called for repentance from sin. But John himself told the people to believe in the One who would come later, meaning Jesus.”
Act 19:5 As soon as they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 Then when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them,

Do you have a personal relationship with God through his Word, or an institutional relationship through his “church”.

>> Your sacrament means nothing. <<
True, *my* sacraments would be make-believe, but those established by Christ? Not so much!

Look at marriage: Christ said, what God has put together, let no man put asunder. This explicitly states that at a marriage, God is putting the man and woman together into one flesh.

An outward sign: the wedding ceremony; an inner change: one flesh.

Now you think you are right and I am wrong, and I am sure you have your reasons, but I too have reasons for my belief.

Now, as to baptism saving a person, the Catholic Church teaches that baptism washes away all sin from the soul. Were the newly baptized to die before committing any mortal sin, they would go immediately to Heaven; if a minor sin, then they would need time in Purgatory first.

As to those who were baptized long ago? My baptism is like a ticket to a fancy restaurant: I can’t get in at without the ticket, but I need to show up and I need to show up in appropriate attire, since nothing unclean can enter Heaven.

So I am not saved *by* baptism, but if I am saved, it will be *through* baptism.
___________

>> Acts 19:5 As soon as they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 Then when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, <<

So Catholics do precisely what is described here in the Bible and you claim it is worthless?
___________

As to your four groups of people, let’s see how a Catholic would put it:

1. People who have been baptized as Christ commanded; In the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and who maintain or recover their state of grace will go to Heaven.

2. Those who are baptized as above but who completely rupture their relationship with God by disobeying His commandments will not enter Heaven.

3. Those who are baptized as above but who are not clean need to go to Purgatory to be purged, or purified. All that straw needs to be burned off.

4. Those who are in no way baptized.

Baptism can take other forms, as we are bound by the sacraments but God is not. There is baptism by blood — martyrdom. We hope this for the young man who died alongside the Orthodox workers beheaded by Muslims, saying “Their God is my God.” (
https://www.pillarcatholic.com/p/the-mysterious-saint-who-is-the-21st). We do not know his background, so we can onlybspeculate that he might have been Christian before this moment.

And there is baptism of desire, which the salvation of Dismal is speculated to be. (https://www.catholic.com/qa/does-scripture-support-baptism-by-desire)

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