Posted on 10/16/2001 6:17:16 AM PDT by vrwc54
When a group of American Jews are brutalized and terrorized for four days by another group of Americans, when they are murdered and the murderer goes scott free, when there is no outrage at the anti-Semitic murders and terrorism, then I say Americans cannot be trusted to do what they are supposed to do, ensure justice for all. Your rabid blathering is typical of you and your "patriotic" ilk, but you are ignorant.
I got his point. My point is that national loyalties should not take precedence over personal values IN THOSE INSTANCES it is patently obvious that national loyalties are in conflict with basic human values. For example, there was a time in this country when it was OK to murder Native Americans because the land they were sitting on had value. I am speaking of the 1950's when Indians were assassinated because their property happened to have oil beneath it. This was supported by the government which did not go after the oil companies.
Ten years ago, a group of Jews in NYC were brutalized and terrorized for four days by a large number of African Americans. The media rationalized the violence, the police made no arrests for rioting, the judicial system acquited a murderer who had been identified at the death bed of his victim, and few people cared at all. That event prejudiced my view of my fellow Americans. That was my "epiphany" which made me realize that, while Americans talk about what a great country this is, they really aren't interested in DOING ANYTHING to MAKE this a great country.
It's not "religious" values or "national loyalties", it's basic human values (or the lack of them) which concern me.
Ten years ago, a group of Jews in NYC were brutalized and terrorized for four days by a large number of African Americans.
Hey, man, join the club! You and I are in the same boat on that issue, so don’t blame an old Goy like me for that. I heard about that story on the news, and I was mad as hell. We’ve had to put up with exactly the same kind of treatment in many cities for the past 30 years. The last house I lived in was an old Victorian house in a mixed neighborhood. There were so many ethnic-type burglaries in that neighborhood, I had to carry a gun from my bedroom to my bathroom at night, just in case I surprised a burglar in my hallway. I finally sold the house and got the hell out of that neighborhood.
I can’t even drive through a big-city neighborhood that’s filled with black-militant gangs without receiving obscene gestures and without fearing for my life. I’ll stand side by side with you, or any other American, and fight the brutalizers, no matter what side either race is. Back in the ‘60s I fought against whites who brutalized innocent blacks in the South. Brutalization is not the way America is supposed to work. All of us non-brutalizers have to stick together and fight the brutalizers. We can’t divide ourselves up into different racial and ethnic groups and then gripe because our group is not protected by some other group.
The media rationalized the violence, the police made no arrests for rioting,
We’ve got the same problem too. Didn’t you see how the LAPD cops just fled when the last LA riots began? There were no cops around when that Gentile truck driver was being beaten on live TV. Gentiles and Koreans had to defend themselves and their stores with their own guns, because the cops didn’t want to “offend” the blacks by putting down the riot.
That event prejudiced my view of my fellow Americans
Hey, man, we all aren’t New Yorkers!
That was my "epiphany" which made me realize that, while Americans talk about what a great country this is, they really aren't interested in DOING ANYTHING to MAKE this a great country.
I think that ten years ago in New York, the black-militant lobby was very strong, but its fading. I don’t think you should take just one incident, in one city, in one period of history, and then blame all non-Jewish Americans for the injustice of what happened. Maybe you need to move to Texas or someplace in the South.
It's not "religious" values or "national loyalties", it's basic human values (or the lack of them) which concern me.
I agree with that, and in my mind, American values are or should be values that allow all kinds of people to get along and to join together to fight brutalizers, killers, robbers, terrorists, and invading armies. But this has been a problem since the very beginning of this country... one group brutalizing another, but I don’t think any of us should have to put up with that.
I hope you don’t mind if I responded to some of the comments you posted to mlo.
1. Vamberto Morais, A Short History of Anti-Semitism, (NY: W.W. Norton & Co., Inc., 1976), 70.
It was used to replace the German word "Judenhass" (hatred of Jews) which became somewhat politically-incorrect and unused. Attempts to eradicate the plain meaning of the word are not only anti-Semitic, indeed they are anti-semantic.
It has of recent times been adopted (incorrectly) by Arabs when they find it of some advantage in their propaganda.
Double bingo!!
They are to Judaism what (to take only one example) Branch Davidian is to Christianity. It is a fringe sect whose only claim to fame is that the Palestinian Cabinet member who is an adviser on Jewish affairs is a member of the sect. They a fellow travellers of Yasser & Co. and along with him believe that there should not be a Jewish State until the Messiah comes.
I'm not blaming you or anyone else. Well, not quite. My real outrage is reserved for the loud-mouthed secular "Jewish" liberal establishment since they didn't care either.
I’ll stand side by side with you, or any other American, and fight the brutalizers, no matter what side either race is.
And what did you do in reaction to Crown Heights? Write a letter? Make a phone call? Send a donation to help rebuild? Please don't take offense. I don't expect you to do any of these things. That's my point. I don't expect it of you. You may be a wonderful person. And you may have even taken action in reaction to Crown Heights. But how many of my fellow Americans did? And, it's not only the Jews, it's any politically incorrect group. Certain groups of people can get away with murder in this country because the overwhelming majority of us do not take action to ensure justice for all. I think that's a realistic appraisal and why I feel that "national loyalties" can only be pursued if they are in conjunction with basic human values, i.e., "loyalty" to G-D.
Brutalization is not the way America is supposed to work. All of us non-brutalizers have to stick together and fight the brutalizers. We can’t divide ourselves up into different racial and ethnic groups and then gripe because our group is not protected by some other group.
Well, when African-Americans, Muslim-Americans, Gay Americans, etc., are attacked, we can count on the media and the liberals to scream....as well they should. I am not dividing us up....it is being done by others.
That event prejudiced my view of my fellow Americans
Hey, man, we all aren’t New Yorkers!
No, we're not. But there was no outcry from the rest of the country either. Thanks to the media, we can see how other parts of the country react to a local event. In the wake of the recent attacks, it was heartwarming to see how the overwhelming majority of us came together. We saw the same thing at the Oklahoma bombings. But a year ago there were riots in Israel and the Israeli police killed 13 or 16 Arabs in self defense. Jews and Jewish institutions were attacked in this country. I don't expect the country to rise up in outrage at this injustice, but the media again rationalized the attacks. Perhaps I am oversensitive, but I can't help but feel that had the WTC and Pentagon bombers chose an exclusively Jewish target that there would be that much concern among my fellow Americans.
I think that ten years ago in New York, the black-militant lobby was very strong, but its fading. I don’t think you should take just one incident, in one city, in one period of history, and then blame all non-Jewish Americans for the injustice of what happened. Maybe you need to move to Texas or someplace in the South.
I don't blame you or anyone else. It's what I expect of you that I'm talking about. And what I expect is nothing. That's the problem. I should expect you to work to ensure justice for all. I don't.
I agree with that, and in my mind, American values are or should be values that allow all kinds of people to get along and to join together to fight brutalizers, killers, robbers, terrorists, and invading armies. But this has been a problem since the very beginning of this country... one group brutalizing another, but I don’t think any of us should have to put up with that.
And in some cases, we don't put up with it. The racial murders in Howard Beach and Bensonhurst during the 1980's are proof of that. It was a huge deal in the NY metropolitan area.
I hope you don’t mind if I responded to some of the comments you posted to mlo.
No, I don't mind. Your original post was quite offensive. I'm glad we understand each other better now.
The Arabs hijack the term when it suits them.
Boy, am I glad.
For a minute I thought you didn't like Jews. I'm relieved to know that we are OK except for the fact we have this strange attachment to a place every normal Jew has been attached to for many thousands of years....including a fellow named Jesus.
LOL! Are you saying that only you are in charge of defining “normal”? God has appointed you do define “normal” here on earth? You are saying that my Jewish friends who do not support the current country called “Israel” are “not normal”?
I don’t mind your having an “attachment” for a “place”. I have an “attachment” for Honduras for religious reasons that I’m sure you are not interested in hearing about, but that doesn’t mean I believe in “Honduras First”.
That “place” you are talking about will always be a “place”, no matter which group of political people claim that they are the only ones who represent the “Israel” of the Bible. Anyway, this isn’t an “Israel” or “Zion” message board. Why don’t you go to one of those to post your Zionist remarks, and come here to post your pro-American remarks? If I want to promote Honduras, I’ll go to a Honduras board, which I’ve already done. I don’t think it would be appropriate for me to promote Honduras on this board.
Where do Jews who don't support "the current country called “Israel”" hang out? Where does their synagogue face?
They hang out all over the country. If you want to talk about Zion, go to a Zion board and stop wasting our time.
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