Posted on 10/18/2001 7:25:25 AM PDT by Eala
Finally, a sane person posts! thanks for the Oasis of sanity in this thread ... it's good to find another "thinker" occasionally!! ;-)
...police could stop me and demand I show my ID at any time? If I didn't have an ID I would be reported to the police?
You didn't answer my question. How exactly will this stop terrorism? What benefit does a Nat'l ID add, above and beyond the current green card system?
Do you have a green card?
When you go to the airport, do you see anyone asking for those with Green cards to please go through the "extra" security we have set up?
Exactly .... the purpose is to make things better for us citizens, to be able to identify the "minority" not to "not bother" the majority ...
It is the "national ID" for the CITIZENS that will make us be able to bord planes faster, cash checks faster, do business faster, etc. when we are occasionally asked to show our ID. It will also thrwart those that do not have an ID, or better stated cannot GET a National ID from being able to hide amongst us.
There we go, let's throw out the whole logic of a national ID being able to sort through the citizens and non-citizens by pointing out all the BAD citizens ...
Real good logic .. perhaps we should get rid of our Drivers licenses as well for the same stupid logic you just argued ... let's get back to the arguement of ID'ing who should and should not be in this country, not who's been naughty or nice.
Precisely. County-sized databases with identifying information (photo, thumbprint) would serve all the legitimate purposes ascribed to a "National ID card". On any occasion where there is a legitimate need to identify you (e.g. getting on an airplane), you tell them your name and county of birth, they pull up your photo (and thumbprint, for high-security applications where it's worth the trouble) and compare to the person standing in front of them.
Of course, that doesn't enable the Feds to put together a master list of people who bought a gun and a "surversive" book in the past year. Too bad.
Yikes....
Soo there are types out there hiding in the shadows. This is why we have unsolved crimes?
Can we not live here to do good works.
I as a software programmer, I know your pain in DB admin, but to say its unfair for you to have to make a few changes in your fields is not making me cry. You probally make over $100k and get paid to do such things.
Hitler is dead and history showed that his techniques of tracking is now in place all over the world. This does not mean that he is part of it and what he did is why we would use them. Paraniod hmmmm
Please tell me why you call me a disruptor when all you do is rant!
If you have nothing to hide come out of your closet.
Yeah, a terrorist backed by a guy with 300 million dollars isn't going to be able to get a fake ID card.
Is anybody bothering to think these things through?
And how did the "suicide bomber" get into the country to steal the airport in the first place? How would he get on the plane without showing his National ID or passport?
Sorry, no valid arguement there ...
2)It starts a slippery slope of tax intrusions, gun-ownership intrusions, etc, and
Does a passport do this? does your drivers license do this? not at all ... just silly conspiracy theorists say this. The simple fact is that since we have 50+ different drivers licenses as our form of ID, we are subject to intrusion. We do not require passports for ID, which is done often in Europe;
We do not have a national ID, which works well in South America and Europe and other countries who have dealt with terrorist long before we have
"Chicken little" arguements don't wash ... give us real arguements why what has already been proven to work elsewhere won't work here ....
3)This is just a way for Ellison to move his lips from Clintoon's @$$ to the taxpayer's teat.
Now that's the first real valid arguement you listed! ;-)
No I don't. Not sure what that has to do with the Nat'l ID.
Exactly .... the purpose is to make things better for us citizens, to be able to identify the "minority" not to "not bother" the majority ...
Oh I see. "the purpose is to make things better for us citizens, to be able to identify the "minority" take guns out of criminals hands not to "not bother" the majority." Same rhetoric, different topic.
It is the "national ID" for the CITIZENS that will make us be able to bord planes faster, cash checks faster, do business faster, etc. when we are occasionally asked to show our ID. It will also thrwart those that do not have an ID, or better stated cannot GET a National ID from being able to hide amongst us.
First, I submit a determined criminal will obtained a forged copy of the ID. Second, I would sooner be inconvenienced than have my liberties infringed upon.
Exactly ... it has failed .... should we hire thousands more to police these huge borders of ours? is that what other countries do?
Methods of propaganda employed include Least of Evils, Selective Omission, and of course the Technique of Simplification. You ask a question, the answer to which is complicated and involves hard choices, then you move on assuming a response that fits the rest of your posting.
Reality says that our border will always be difficult to patrol.
This is a rather blatant Assertion. The fact that something is difficult does not mean that we should shy away from it. The fact that it is difficult does not mean that we should not do it. The fact that it is difficult does not make it impossible. I might even argue that it is not even a difficult task. A large task, maybe, but not a hard task.
I would think that it is a safe bet to say that without national ID's in these countries, you would have seen anarchy a long time ago.
Peru could not have dealt with it's terrorist problems without a National ID.
Do countries still have terrorism? certainly. Countries that are more multi-language, share more similar small countries to make an economic zone, and more reasons will make these countries more subject to terrorism than we should be.
National ID's is not a substitute to keeping our country based on one language, to having a strong INS, and more but it is needed now to keep our economy flowing at its best.
Because the people in charge failed to use their existing powers properly. I'm not interested in their whining that they need more -- let them do their jobs.
No problem there ... just make having one pay off for those that get one, as in shorter lines (again!!) at the airport!
You are either a stock holder or employee or both to make THIS statement ....
Would you care to buy my Australian Funnel-Web Spider repellent? It's guaranteed to work -- there isn't a single funnel-web spider within eight thousand miles of here!
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