Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Logic and Rhetoric: Misadventure in the Search for Truth at Free Republic (posted Nov. 6, 2001)
Essay by self | 6 November 01 | AndyJackson

Posted on 11/06/2001 5:22:36 PM PST by AndyJackson

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100 ... 181-190 next last
To: sheltonmac; Dawntreader; greenthumb; AndyJackson
Son, it looks like you indeed 'hit a nerve' with your article. Patriotism is a wonderful thing and since I raised you, I know you are a Patriot in the truest sense - you love justice. Thanks for raising important issues for us to think about.

You don't need to defend yourself, truth will out. Remember what I taught you - what others accuse you of, they are usually guilty of themselves. Also, remember Micah's admonition - seek justice, love mercy and walk humbly with your God. He will see you through.

And to master andyjackson - at least sheltonmac has the intestinal fortitude to put his neck on the line each week via the internet with his postings - what's your latest accomplishment? He states who he is and what he believes on his website. You sir do no such thing. You hide behind annonimity and throw stones at those who are actively involved in trying to make this nation a better place to live and prosper. Calling my son a 'liberal' and 'propagandist' shows your complete inability to recognize either one. Sit at the feet of a true logician and learn some humility. Constructive criticism is always welcome because none of us are perfect. But throwing stones and lashing out with epitats that are sure to rile are not ways to criticize constructively.

I hope I haven't 'circumnavigated the globe' to make my point.

61 posted on 11/08/2001 8:36:40 AM PST by sola gracia
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Frank
Anyone can [using the bizarro nitpicking technique we see above] tear apart common english comments.
Words gain meaning in relationship to the context of statements made before, and after, their placement in debate.

What is really weird, is that comments as obvious as mine even have to be pointed out to you fellas. Odd.

62 posted on 11/08/2001 2:10:31 PM PST by tpaine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies]

To: AndyJackson
AJ says;

"Often I read what I have written and find I don't understand a word of it. Sometimes diagramming it is the only way to get myself out of my own muddle." - and hoists himself.

63 posted on 11/08/2001 2:21:00 PM PST by tpaine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: Demidog
You argue that the primary job of the government really is national defense, but cannot even get through this part without hedging what you mean by defense.

I think by general agreement, it is the Constitution that lays out the purposes and powers of the U.S. government. My copy reads:
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Nowhere do I see that the common defense is the primary purpose. This is important because the author wants me to believe that the government is doing something it is not supposed to be doing at the expense of defense. But this simply is not true.

64 posted on 11/08/2001 2:33:25 PM PST by AndyJackson
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 60 | View Replies]

To: Demidog
so far have failed to address the point.

I addressed this in post #36 at some length, at least what I think the point was, namely the difference between us and terrorists. This answer is so obvious that no one should have to answer it, except the author. If the point is moral relativism, I also addressed that.

What I did not address is what the author himself said the subject was, above, namely, that we are morally bankrupt. However, he did not write about that.

Since we are talking about addressing and missing points, you missed my point and didn't address it. My article demonstrated the logical twists and turns of an anti-abortionist transforming himself into a moral relativist. This is normally hard to do, but he "apparently" did it and I wanted to figure out how. If his logic were convincing I would have to make the same transformation myself. Fortunately, I am safe.

65 posted on 11/08/2001 2:50:33 PM PST by AndyJackson
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies]

To: Weisbrot
onanize

If blowing smoke is not an appropriate rhetorical device in constructing a sound argument I seriously doubt that throwing a stink bomb is either. Nevertheless you have learned nothing, and sadly felt no constraint from posting despite your protests.

66 posted on 11/08/2001 2:56:25 PM PST by AndyJackson
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: sola gracia
Sit at the feet of a true logician

I would love to. Please give me his name so that I may be so enlightened.

67 posted on 11/08/2001 2:58:44 PM PST by AndyJackson
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: tpaine
Words gain meaning in relationship to the context of statements made before, and after, their placement in debate.

This can be true. For instance, you have to read all of de Toqueville to understand completely the meaning of "Democracy" as he means it. The problem is when from sentence to sentence the meaning keeps changing, so that you never know what the word means, such as in Demidog's post above where he has to change the meaning of defense to something it doesn't mean to most of us in order to attempt to carry his point. It didn't matter because the Constitution says something entirely different anyway.

68 posted on 11/08/2001 3:02:17 PM PST by AndyJackson
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 62 | View Replies]

To: sola gracia
Calling my son a 'liberal' and 'propagandist'

I called your son a neo-conservative, inaccurately since he describes himself as a paleo-conservative and I apologized for that. His opinion is that we are the same as the terrorists. This is nihilism, which I did also call him. MinuteGal called him a propagandist, not me. She seems to have some expertise in the area and so I will defer to her judgment.

69 posted on 11/08/2001 3:07:15 PM PST by AndyJackson
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: AndyJackson
While I strive for logical purity, I confess that occasionally I let emotion or presumption enter my discourse. Crucify me. You'll find that often the most moving arguments are those that appeal to NOT ONLY the head but the heart. For those who consider such a claim the province of liberals, let me point out that this is not a court of law, but a forum for opinion as well. Perhaps not every post is framed as air-tightly as a Supreme Court opinion -- which is itself arguable -- but then not all posts are intended to persuade as much as to express.

Where flaws in logic arise, feel free to point them out. But it might behoove you to live and let live as well. Unless you are capable of concocting a discourse on pure reason.

70 posted on 11/08/2001 3:08:06 PM PST by IronJack
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AndyJackson
Yeah, but what did he say about cheese?
71 posted on 11/08/2001 3:09:39 PM PST by mlo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: IronJack
I have no problem with an appeal to the heart, so long as it does not leave my head spinning like a teenager in heat.
72 posted on 11/08/2001 3:13:17 PM PST by AndyJackson
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]

To: mlo
what's cheese? Got any? LOL
73 posted on 11/08/2001 3:14:05 PM PST by AndyJackson
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 71 | View Replies]

To: AndyJackson
The writer obviously assumed his readers would have some basic understanding of dialog and social discourse.

The author did not put a human face on the question but rather the audacity of the act of asking and only a self-absorbed regressive introvert would deliberately cloud the issue.

I would go on, but suffice it to say that your critique, kaff, kaff is the most ridiculous piece of analysis I have seen here since navigator used to smell up the place with his pompous ponderings on the libertarian ideal...of which he was woefully ignorant.

Only if you are a prepubescent middle schooler will I forgive your insult to our intelligence.

However, and for this liberal there is always a however, I think you are more likely to be a graduate student with far too much time on your hands and you should visit a priest post haste for he alone can grant you absolution.

In case I have not made myself perfectly clear in anthropomorphic terms...you stink so badly I can smell you through the screen and I feel the need to retch...

74 posted on 11/08/2001 3:14:43 PM PST by harrowup
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: harrowup
I am guilty of all of those things. Now tell me, which thesis of the author's you find so appealing. Please write it down for me in normal word order, subject, verb object using the active voice. I am a middle-schooler who is easily confused by complex sentence structures.

If in doing this you feel inclined to tell me what I look like, think like or smell like, I would encourage you to do so. Please put these comments in a separate paragraph from the rest so that we can keep separate subjects separate.

75 posted on 11/08/2001 3:26:58 PM PST by AndyJackson
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 74 | View Replies]

To: AndyJackson
Gee....I would say that Freepers are human.
76 posted on 11/08/2001 3:28:19 PM PST by freekitty
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: tpaine
Anyone can [using the bizarro nitpicking technique we see above] tear apart common english comments.

Granted. But some retorts made, in the process of said tearing-apart, will have more validity than others. On the whole, the poster's tearing-apart comments make valid and germane points which illustrate fundamental flaws in the article's logic. This won't necessarily be true of all such tearing-aparts you refer to.

Perhaps, you disagree with that. That's ok with me.

What is really weird, is that comments as obvious as mine even have to be pointed out to you fellas. Odd.

After all, we're all (besides you) just a bunch of mindless drone idiots. Got it. ;)

77 posted on 11/08/2001 3:42:25 PM PST by Dr. Frank fan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 62 | View Replies]

To: AndyJackson
Your post to Demidog:

You argue that the primary job of the government really is national defense, but cannot even get through this part without hedging what you mean by defense.

I saw no 'hedging'. Straw man/tarbaby.

I think by general agreement, it is the Constitution that lays out the purposes and powers of the U.S. government. My copy reads:
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Nowhere do I see that the common defense is the primary purpose.

-- Nowhere do I see where it isn't. Order is not specified. Straw man.

This is important because the author wants me to believe that the government is doing something it is not supposed to be doing at the expense of defense. But this simply is not true. -#64-

-- Your unsupported opinion does not make the authors opinion 'not true'.

Try again, with some logic.

78 posted on 11/08/2001 3:43:49 PM PST by tpaine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 68 | View Replies]

To: tpaine
Since you cannot read something through from start to finish, I quote from Demidog This isn't simply relegated to border defense. It also includes defense of our individual liberties.

This is a fudge and mixes meanings. One of these is performed by the Navy and standing army. The other defense is provided by patriots armed with a copy of the Constitution and a stout heart and sound mind. In fact, our founding fathers were so concerned about the threat a standing army posed to our liberties that they were not certain such thing should be allowed.

79 posted on 11/08/2001 3:51:58 PM PST by AndyJackson
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 78 | View Replies]

To: tpaine
I really want to understand you. Frequently when you don't like something I have written you CALL it a strawman. Could you be precise about what you mean by the term "strawman."
80 posted on 11/08/2001 3:55:32 PM PST by AndyJackson
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 78 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100 ... 181-190 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson