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ROBERT E. LEE'S DEFINITION OF A GENTLEMAN
My Archives ^ | 19th Century | General Robert E. Lee in a letter to one of his sons

Posted on 01/19/2002 5:03:13 PM PST by LadyJD

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Comment #81 Removed by Moderator

To: RobbyS
That I can't answer because I don't have enough information. I do know that there are several monuments that were erected across the South to the faithful slaves who suffered and in many cases remained loyal to "their" families after the WBTS.

I am sorry that a quick "Google" search didn't turn up the URL I wanted to post on that subject. There is a very nice monument somewhere in the Lowcountry of South Carolina that is dedicated to loyal slaves.

I did find this:

Commentary by Douglas M. Schauer
"That Home is Here"
By Douglas M. Schauer: schauer@lowcountry.com

In early 1861, Colleton County, like most areas of the South, sent its young men off to war. It was a war fought for many reasons. Many of the men did not return; they died at Chickamauga, Pocataligo, Drury's Bluff, Weldon Railroad, Petersburg, Gettysburg, and many other untold places. They died of disease, they died of the musket, they died of the bayonet, they died of the sword. They were citizens of Colleton County and as such deserve to be honored, like the dead of our other wars, with the monument that now stands on the courthouse grounds.

It is said that the monument promotes racism and division. Inanimate objects cannot do this. Only the hearts of men can do this. It is unfortunate that today many groups, both black and white, promote this philosophy, but I can assure you it's not this monument. The fact remains that 94% of the men who fought for the South during the War Between the States did not own slaves. Of the 6% who did, only 3% can be considered large slaveholders; most worked the fields alongside their servants. It does not make sense that 94% of the men would fight and possibly die so that only a few could hold men captive.

If you read the countless memoirs, diaries, letters and other first person accounts of the War, you will find a variety of reasons why they chose to go off to war. They went because they thought it would be fun. They went because they did not want to miss the adventure of their generation. They went to protect their homes. They went because they thought of themselves as patriots just as the Founding Fathers did. They went because if they didn't, others would think they were cowards. And they went so that their families and sweethearts would be proud of them. All of these reasons can be found in the first person accounts of all our other wars, too. They were no different. In all the first person accounts I have read, not one mentions that they were fighting to promote slavery - not one!

It's not just a white monument. A Colleton County African-American joined C Company, 24th South Carolina Volunteer Infantry as a cook. His name was James Russell. He joined of his own free will, he wasn't forced. He was a free man, not a slave. And he didn't just stay in the rear. On November 25, 1863, he followed his comrades into battle at Missionary Ridge and laid down his life with them. He is listed as killed in action. So you see, this monument does represent us all. Different races, different backgrounds, different ideas, and different dreams. To forget our Confederate dead is to forget Mr. Russell and the contributions he made for Colleton County.

Some say the monument represents what is shameful and undesirable. Some say it reinforces thoughts and actions better buried and forgotten. To this I say - the monument represents duty, honor, courage, and sacrifice. These things should not be forgotten or buried. These are desirable traits that should be instilled in all our youth: black and white. The men who fought and died sacrificed everything for their homes. The men who fought and lived came home different people. And all of them helped define our national character.

If this monument is removed, it will dishonor the dead of this county by judging them with a label they do not deserve. It is fitting that this monument is erected on the county courthouse grounds; the men who died were citizens of this county; they are our kin and should not be forgotten. If this monument is removed, it will not only dishonor those who fought in the War Between the States, but it will dishonor those who fought in all other American wars as well for you see, they all are comrades in death and as we all know death is colorblind.

For many reasons, as illustrated above, soldiers go off to war. It is rarely for political ones. But once at war, the only thought on a soldier's mind is home. Home is what motivates all soldiers whether from the War Between the States of the Gulf War.

Vietnam soldiers always thought of home. They didn't care about communism, or about the VC, or about the Gulf of Tonkin resolution. All they cared about was surviving their tour and coming home. I remember my dad telling me about getting off the plane in America after his tour in Vietnam. He stood proudly in his officer's uniform with medals shining in the sun. Then some student walked up to him and spit on him. His own people spit on him because they assumed he was a baby-killer and was evil. They didn't take the time to ask why he went or what actually happened over there. They believed their own propaganda. Vietnam veterans really didn't get to come home until recently with the construction of the Vietnam Memorial in Washington. You know we lost that war, too.

The same is true with this monument. Many of the dead of Colleton County lay in cemeteries and battlefields strewn throughout the Nation, including Mr. Russell who is buried at Missionary Ridge in Tennessee. This monument lets them come home. For those veteran's who survived and their descendants, it gives them closure and a way to cope with the tragedy of the War. For the families of those who didn't come home, it allows them to proclaim to the world that their father, their brother, their husband, their son gave everything they had for home.

To those who want this monument removed, I challenge you. Read the letters, the diaries, the memoirs of those soldiers. Learn about them. Dr. Martin Luther King fought and died so that his children would be judged not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. I ask you now not to judge these Confederate soldiers on the color of their skin but by the content of their character as witnessed by the writings they left behind. Writings meant only for family or self and therefore a true judge of what they felt. I guarantee you that these men thought only of one thing. They didn't care about slavery, or state's rights, or politics, or race, or hatred; they thought only of home. And that home is here.

82 posted on 01/20/2002 4:16:33 PM PST by LadyJD
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To: BurkeCalhounDabney
Great patriot; his son is a good man too. The Chancey's are among those who are keeping the low flame of FREEDOM alive.
83 posted on 01/20/2002 4:19:30 PM PST by LadyJD
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To: billbears
My pleasure!

“If tyranny and despotism justified the American Revolution in 1776, then we do not see why it would not justify the secession of Five Millions of Southrons from the Federal Union in 1861." -- New York Daily Tribune, 17 December 1860

84 posted on 01/20/2002 4:21:57 PM PST by LadyJD
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To: LadyJD
So it's "false mythology" to attribute any noble motives to Lincoln, but not to beatify Robert E. Lee?
85 posted on 01/20/2002 4:34:37 PM PST by IronJack
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To: tbeatty
Greatest quote ever:

"We surrender." - General Lee, Appomattox Courthouse 1865

I've got a better one ...

"Sic Semper Tyrannis !" John Wilkes Boothe.
Assassin of the American Caeser.

86 posted on 01/20/2002 4:40:21 PM PST by Centurion2000
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Comment #87 Removed by Moderator

Comment #88 Removed by Moderator

Comment #89 Removed by Moderator

To: BurkeCalhounDabney
OOPS!

My mistake. I met Matt at a homeschool event at Furman U. I thought he was a Jr.

90 posted on 01/20/2002 4:49:56 PM PST by LadyJD
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To: IronJack
Opinions and truths are not universally exclusive. Propriety is not an issue here. The "facts" speak for themselves. Dictating that Lincoln not be held up for what he was is foolish and counter to knowing the circumstances which led to Gen. Lee being recognized for the great man he was. Side by side comparisons only make greater the vast superiority of Gen. Lee's stature. Had it not been for Lincoln, Gen. Lee would have remained a loyal citizen to Constitutional government and the South might not have been forced to secede. Nothing here can detract from the legacy of Gen. Lee. Anything stated here can only exalt his memory and make clear his contribution to modern patriotic feelings.
91 posted on 01/20/2002 4:52:53 PM PST by Thumper1960
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To: LadyJD
Thank you. Very good.
92 posted on 01/20/2002 4:56:05 PM PST by RobbyS
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Comment #93 Removed by Moderator

To: RobbyS
“The Constitution is swollen with dangerous doctrine; doctrine that will be taken advantage of by the Federalists, a faction of monarchy men, military men, aristocrats and drones whose noise, impudence and zeal exceeds all belief."—Richard Henry Lee, (Robert E. Lee's kinsman) in a letter to George Mason, 1 October 1787
94 posted on 01/20/2002 5:04:59 PM PST by LadyJD
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To: Thumper1960
Since the Federalists argued for a strong Union, it seems counter-productive to assert Lincoln's imputed ignorance of those writings as evidence of his antipathy toward states' rights.

I don't regard Lincoln as a cult figure. But the most striking example of his morality is the fact that he was more charitable toward the Confederacy than you have been toward him. And indeed, your icon, Gen. Lee, was much more charitable as well.

The "facts" whereof you speak are nothing more than thinly disguised opinion, your belief in them notwithstanding.

Since we run the risk of escalating tension and allowing this pleasant thread to degenerate into a brawl, let me bid you good evening.

95 posted on 01/20/2002 5:33:40 PM PST by IronJack
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To: Thumper1960
Had it not been for Lincoln, Gen. Lee would have remained a loyal citizen to Constitutional government and the South might not have been forced to secede.

So how was the south 'forced to secede'?

96 posted on 01/20/2002 5:36:52 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: BurkeCalhounDabney
I am not aware of any evidence that Lincoln was family [sic] with the writings of Jefferson and Madison in the Virginia and Kentucky Resolves -- a clear expression of militant states' rights, straight from the Founders themselves.

Then you are not aware of any evidence that Lincoln was NOT familiar with those sentiments either. Certainly a man of Lincoln's sweep living and ruling as he did during such upheaval is bound to draw his enemies, even from the ranks of friends. And his frontier upbringing could have been a liability, or it could have been an asset, in that he learned a certain moral obstinacy that served him -- and this nation -- well in times of utter dissolution.

Now unfortunately, I've been forced into the uneviable position of defending Mr. Lincoln in territory that is obviously hostile. Discretion being the better part of valor, and this thread being at risk of losing its charm, I must conclude our discussion.

Thank you for demonstrating your erudtion on the subject, and for the civil tone in which you asserted your position. However, I still find your premise suspect.

Good night.

97 posted on 01/20/2002 5:42:26 PM PST by IronJack
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To: Centurion2000
I've got a better one ...

I've got an even better one:

"[groan] [ugh]" -- John Wilkes Booth as he lay dying in agony in a burning barn after breaking his leg and being hunted down like a rabid dog.

98 posted on 01/20/2002 5:45:52 PM PST by IronJack
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To: Non-Sequitur
I would submit that the South was forced to seccession by the non-adherence to the Constitution by the Northern majority.
99 posted on 01/20/2002 6:21:36 PM PST by Thumper1960
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To: LincolnDefender
Your nick says it all, so I am not even going to bother arguing with you. Your mind is made up, and there is nothing that I can do to change you mind.

All I can say is that the war had NOTHING to do with slavery and leave it at that. Go sell your snakeoil somewhere else...
100 posted on 01/20/2002 8:17:28 PM PST by Aric2000
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