Ford sorry he left gun in office

Worcester Telegram and Gazette ^ | 14 March 2002 | Mike Elfland

[EBUCK]

BTW. No one said that he was going to loose anything (permit ect.). He just stood up and took resp. for not being more carefull with his firearms. Do you leave your weapons out where your kids can get to them? Do you leave your pistols in your top dresser drawer where any kid over 4 will be able to get his/her hands on them? If so, you're asking for trouble.

EBUCK

[Dr.Deth]

Let me see if I understand. Some little punks rifle through a man's briefcase, in the man's office, and steal the man's property.

The man is punished.

Is there a way to detach the People's Republic of Massachusetts from the mainland, and tow it out to the middle of the Atlantic?

Or better still, annex it to France.

[Dr.Deth]

“That's what people have to understand. It only takes a second for someone to pick up a gun and for something to happen.”

This gets the "No S*** Sherlock" award for the day. Guess that's why we don't fight wars with bowling pins, you friggin' moron.

[4CJ]

"Responsibility for what? He was robbed. It isn't like he left it in plain sight. If the door to his office was closed and the briefcase was closed, that's good enough for me."

Bingo.

[sneakypete]

As he awaits court action on a firearms charge, social service center administrator Adrian L. Ford said yesterday he will not dodge responsibility for leaving his loaded gun in his unlocked office. Two sixth-graders are accused of stealing the gun and taking it to B.F. Brown Middle School.

This guy is either a total fool,or is trying to "play the game" in a effort to get a light sentence. NONE of it was his fault. He had/has a reasonable right to assume his private property is secure from theft while left in his office. It is TOTALLY the fault of these little criminal snots who stole the gun. These damn-fool "properly stored" laws are just a effort to shift criminal blame away from the REAL criminals,and onto innocent citizens.

[sneakypete]

At least he admits responsibility.

Yeah,but he's NOT responsible. The THEIVES are the ones who comitted a crime,not him.

I'd like to see if this guy has ever supported gun control in the past.

You could safely bet everything you own on this. He is a elitist,and like all elitists,the laws aren't supposed to apply to people like him.

[sneakypete]

I don't know how we got to this point in society where the victim of a robbery has now become responsible for having the stuff stolen.

I do. The answer is simple. Most people knew the laws wouldn't affect THEM,and it made them feel good about themselves to support these laws. After all,"It's for the chil-run!".

[EBUCK]

I must correct myself. I must have missed the part where it says that he is going to loose his permit. Sorry for the non-observance.

EBUCK

[sneakypete]

Not good enough for me if there are a bunch of kids running around.

Let's hear you say in your best whiney voice,"It's for the chil-runnnnnnn!". There are ALWAYS children running around all over the place,and always has been. It is the job of their parents and society to teach them to not steal,and it is NOT the fault of any of their victims what they do with what they steal.In MY opinion we would all be better off it these two little thugs entered a suicide pact and took turns shooting each other with it.

It's not like leaving a screw driver in your briefcase, it's a gun man.

Don't know squat about guns or other weapons,do you? Set aside your emotions and use your mind. A screwdriver is a MORE effective weapon that a 25ACP,and IS more dangerous.Seriously.

Gotta keep control of your firearms at all times.(period) End of story.

I am in control of my weapons at all times. Most stay in my house laying around loaded in various areas,and I always have at least one loaded one on me,and sometimes another loaded one in my truck. I have a reasonable right to assume my guns are secure when locked inside my property.,and I am vain/self-confident enough to consider them very secure when on my person. End of story.

And by taking resp. for his actions I commend this guy.

Then you are brainwashed. What he did was take responsibility for the criminal actions of OTHERS,namely these criminal kids. Hey,what the hell? Why don't you just go ahead and take responsibility for bin Laden while you are in the "responsibility-taking mood",and call off the US military?

[sneakypete]

That kid is SERIOUS trouble.

Yeah,he may even have to stay home from school and watch cartoons for about 3 days. The truth is he could walk up to somebody on the street and murder them in cold blood,and still be out of juvie jail when he turns 18,and he won't even have a criminal record. He knows it,and all his friends know it. There are NO consequences to them from the legal system for any crime they commit,other than "hero" or "bad ass" status when they go back to school.

[EBUCK]

When children are involved you don't think more care should be taken to secure your firearms?

If you left some drain cleaner out in the garage and your kid drank it you wouldn't feel responsible?

I'm not saying the kid isn't at fault here. I'm saying that if you are going to bring your personal protective devices to a place where kids are running around you had better make sure that they are either on your person or secure.

The argument that the firearm was secure in his office is false. It obviously wasn't.

EBUCK

[EBUCK]

Don't know squat about guns or other weapons,do you?

I am a former Marine. I know more than 90% of this country does about firearms. And I also know that when not in use/being cleaned our firearms were either at the armory (secure) or locked in a rack at our barracks (also secure). It's people like you, the un-responsible leave your guns lying around loaded types, that are hastening our dis-armament. You are the guy that is giving the "it's for the chilluns" groups ammunition. Every time some kid gets his hands on a gun because fools like you leave them laying around "loaded" we loose another group of on-the-fence people to the nanny anti-second-amm lobby. Thanks a bunch, your lack of respect for firearms is really helping our cause.

EBUCK

[egb18delta]

In Mass you need a a Class A license to carry concealed. A Firearms I.D lets you have a firearm and ammunition in your house. That's it. If I recall correctly. A F.I.D in Mass is useless. Can't even take your firearms to the range or hunting. There is also a Class B LTC. I believe that is required for range shooting and hunting.

[sneakypete]

When children are involved you don't think more care should be taken to secure your firearms?

No. I got MY first gun when I was only 6 or 7,and kept both it and the shells (12 gauge) for it in my bedroom.EVERY kid I knew growning up had family guns in a drawer or propped-up in a corner of their houses behind a door. Some were loaded,but everybody in the houses knew where the ammumition for the unloaded ones was. Not a single kid I knew growing up was ever shot with or shot another kid with one of these guns.

If you left some drain cleaner out in the garage and your kid drank it you wouldn't feel responsible?

No,not if the kid was old enough to talk and be warned. Any kid stupid enough to drink drain cleaner needs to be taken out of the gene pool. I'm not saying the kid isn't at fault here. I'm saying that if you are going to bring your personal protective devices to a place where kids are running around you had better make sure that they are either on your person or secure.

And *I'm* saying the Bill of Rights is in more danger from this crap than any children are,and that is is also more important than feral children. The argument that the firearm was secure in his office is false. It obviously wasn't.

Of course it was. It didn't leave the briefcase by itself and get kidnapped while out on a walk. It was stolen by people old enough to know that nothing in that room or briefcase belonged to them,and that they were comitted a criminal act. How far are you willing to take this? Are you prepared to still hold the victim at blame if he had his guns locked in a gun safe,and these criminal children used power tools or a torch to break into the safe to steal them? If not,why not?

[sneakypete]

I am a former Marine. I know more than 90% of this country does about firearms.

And you STILL don't know squat about weapons.

And I also know that when not in use/being cleaned our firearms were either at the armory (secure) or locked in a rack at our barracks (also secure).

This is because you were living in a group setting where you didn't have any reasonable expection of privacy or "private space",and because the USMC didn't trust you with weapons in THEIR house.

It's people like you, the un-responsible leave your guns lying around loaded types, that are hastening our dis-armament.

Cry me a river. It's the whiney knee-jerk emotional people like you who don't know what you are talking about who cause this. What makes you think YOU are qualified to tell ME how I should live? You don't know a damn thing about guns and have probably never been around them except while in the military. Beyond that,you probably don't even know and socialize with anybody else who grew up around them,either.You whole "gig" here is based on "yeah,it not only sounds good,it FEELS good!".

You are the guy that is giving the "it's for the chilluns" groups ammunition.

Look in the mirror if you want to see the fool who is backing their play. Joined the Million Moms March yet?

Every time some kid gets his hands on a gun because fools like you leave them laying around "loaded" we loose another group of on-the-fence people to the nanny anti-second-amm lobby.

Boo Hoo,and BullHillary at the same time.

Thanks a bunch, your lack of respect for firearms is really helping our cause.

You don't have the first clue about what the hell you are complaining about.

[EBUCK]

And you STILL don't know squat about weapons.

I currently own four firearms. An AR-15, Browning Hi-Pow 9mm, an old Winchester Oct. Barrel, and an 30.06 Rem.. I know them inside and out. They are locked up at home (except for my Hi-Power which is on my body right now). I got my first .22 rifle at the age of 8. I think I can say that I know enough to discuss this.

This is because you were living in a group setting where you didn't have any reasonable expection of privacy or "private space",and because the USMC didn't trust you with weapons in THEIR house.

Try this.
This is because Rich was working in a group setting where he didn't have any reasonable expection of privacy or "private space",...

Cry me a river. It's the whiney knee-jerk emotional people like you who don't know what you are talking about who cause this. What makes you think YOU are qualified to tell ME how I should live? You don't know a damn thing about guns and have probably never been around them except while in the military. Beyond that,you probably don't even know and socialize with anybody else who grew up around them,either.You whole "gig" here is based on "yeah,it not only sounds good,it FEELS good!".

I grew up with guns, I hunt/fish every time I get the chance. And I'm not telling you how to live. I'm just saying that if you don't control your weapons they will be taken from you and me. Now, which would you rather have? Keep control of your weapons so that the nannys have no reason to take them from you of let them come and get them because you don't want to act responsibly and keep you weapons under control.

Look in the mirror if you want to see the fool who is backing their play. Joined the Million Moms March yet?

No million mom march, NRA life member. Like I said, take control or loose your rights. See, and this is where you seem to fall off the cart, with freedom comes responsibility. Take responsibility.

EBUCK

[sneakypete]

First off,I'd like to apologize for the tone of my last post. NOT the general contents,but the tone.I got a lot nastier and personal than I had any right to get,and there was no reason or excuse for it

I currently own four firearms. An AR-15, Browning Hi-Pow 9mm, an old Winchester Oct. Barrel, and an 30.06 Rem.. I know them inside and out. They are locked up at home (except for my Hi-Power which is on my body right now). I got my first .22 rifle at the age of 8. I think I can say that I know enough to discuss this.

Anybody and everybody knows enough to discuss this,but that doesn't mean anybody and everybody has taken the time to think it through,OR had enough different experiences in life to understand that not everybody has the same living conditions.

Try this. This is because Rich was working in a group setting where he didn't have any reasonable expection of privacy or "private space",...

Wrong. He had every right to expect his office to be inviolate when he closed the door and walked away from it. He wasn't working in a open setting.And beyond that,he had the pistol hidden inside his briefcase where it was out of sight,and he had a reasonable right to assume out of reach to others.

I grew up with guns,

In that case you should know better.How many of YOUR guns were locked away out of sight and your reach while YOU were growing up? How many of your friends killed each other playing with guns that were never locked away?

And I'm not telling you how to live.

Yes,you are. That is EXACTLY what you are doing when you say you support these laws,since these laws would tell me how to live.

I'm just saying that if you don't control your weapons they will be taken from you and me.

My guns are under control. They are locked up inside my house,on my person,or locked in my truck.

Now, which would you rather have? Keep control of your weapons so that the nannys have no reason to take them from you

First off,this has nothing to do with actual safety,and everything to do with passing yet one more gun law that gives the cops the authority to arrest you so you have your gun rights taken away. In other words,they don't need a REASON to try to take the guns away from any of us,only the excuse. If it isn't this,it will be something else.

Secondly,NOBODY is going to take my guns. Period. That's my line in the sand.

NRA life member.

I'm a NRA Life Member,too. I first joined them around 1957,or 1959. I can't remember exactly. The NRA has done us more harm that Handgun Control ever dreamed of doing,including backing the passage of the "Gun Control Act of 1968".

Like I said, take control or loose your rights.

They may TAKE my rights from me,but I won't be losing OR surrendering them. I don't have any illegal weapons now,and if any of the weapons I do have are ever banned in the future,that's not my fault. I'm not hiding anything,I'm not denying I own anything,and I'm not giving anything up. If the authorities ever come to my house to confiscate any of my weapons,I will treat them the same as I would any other armed robber.

[marktwain]

EBUCK

I would like to know what you think this fellow is taking responsibility for, and why. If you are saying that he was responsible that the firearm was stolen, then wouldn't he be responsible if a hundred dollar bill in the same location was stolen? It really seems here that you are blaming the victim.

Now you might contend that he wasn't prudent, or that he was foolish, but I don't think you can push responsibility for the act on him. Why would this be any different if he had left his car unlocked and the kids stole that? Would their stealing of the car be his responsibility? I contend that in a civilized society, you should never be responsible for the actions of others, unless you deliberately and willfullly used fraud against them to get them to do what you wanted. The only exception would be if you have guardianship of a person who is not responsible for themselves.

[jsraggmann]

The third-world dungheap known as massachusetts isn't part of the United States anymore. The teacher should have the right to own the weapon of his choice, even if it's a .25. Of course the man should have had better control of his gun, he should have had it in a holster. But you can't do that in the Peoples Republic. The felons that stole his guns should do hard time for theft of a firearm, period end!