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Fossil skull fuels debate over human origin
CNN ^ | March 21, 2002 Posted: 10:28 AM EST (1528 GMT)

Posted on 03/21/2002 7:04:27 AM PST by RoughDobermann

Edited on 04/29/2004 2:00:17 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

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To: medved
Would you agree with the folowing?

The rate of mtDNA mutation is not well known. A study by Parsons et al. (1997) found a rate 20 times higher than that calculated from other sources. In an article reviewing mtDNA research, Strauss (1999a) reports that mtDNA mutation rates differ in some groups of animals, and can even vary dramatically in single lineages. Although there are many agreements, some divergence dates for modern animals calculated from mtDNA do not match with what is known from the fossil record. There are suggestions from a few sources that paternal mtDNA can sometimes be inherited, which could affect analyses based on mtDNA.

101 posted on 03/21/2002 12:54:39 PM PST by RoughDobermann
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To: f.Christian
Well, just occasionally, and you have before so I know you can do it, speak in English.

I'm sure you're capable to construct a simple sentence, correct?

And I'm really flattered that I inspire your lack of coherence but you know...I'd like to inspire some truly interesting arguments from you. Of course, I might miss your odd posts should you ever stop. Oh well. Can't have it all, can you?

102 posted on 03/21/2002 12:56:15 PM PST by JediGirl
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To: f.Christian;JediGirl
Watch out girl...I think he's taken a liken' to ya!
Oldcats
103 posted on 03/21/2002 12:56:46 PM PST by oldcats
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To: oldcats
You sure ask for a lot!!

I guess I do :)

BTW I used to play French horn in H.S. too.

Great instrument, eh? I thoroughly enjoy playing. In fact, we have contest tomorrow.

104 posted on 03/21/2002 1:00:28 PM PST by JediGirl
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To: JediGirl
I thought I played rather crappily till it was verified by others that it was way beyond crappy...
Good luck tomorrow....I'm rooting for ya!
Oldcats
105 posted on 03/21/2002 1:05:43 PM PST by oldcats
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To: JediGirl
f.Christian...jedieman---cpr!
106 posted on 03/21/2002 1:16:19 PM PST by f.Christian
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To: medved
Thanks for the link. I knew Neanderthals had been ruled out as ancestors of homo sapiens, but I didn't know it had been based on DNA studies. But nothink in those links suggests that h. erectus couldn't be ancestral to both sapiens and neanderthal.
107 posted on 03/21/2002 1:18:23 PM PST by Lurking Libertarian
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To: JediGirl;oldcats
BTW I used to play French horn in H.S. too.

Obviously there's a correlation here between a certain brass instrument and acceptance of evolution. Guess which instrument I played in high school... ;)

108 posted on 03/21/2002 1:22:55 PM PST by general_re
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To: general_re
No way!!!!!
This is getting too Twilight Zone-ish!!!
But there is no wat that you--know--who did to.....
Oldcats
109 posted on 03/21/2002 1:26:25 PM PST by oldcats
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To: RoughDobermann
They come to this conclusion after looking at the mtDNA of THREE Neandertals?

Yes. Although it's long been thought that Neanderthals were not direct ancestors of modern humans anyway, but evidence other than anatomical evidence has been hard to come by until now. It's not definitive, given that the DNA analysis is not perfect, but it's another piece of evidence that Neanderthals and modern humans share a common ancestor rather than one being descended from the other.

IOW, this is hardly an unexpected result.

110 posted on 03/21/2002 1:26:31 PM PST by general_re
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To: oldcats
Ban the French horn!---leads to evolution---pagan mystics---damn that instrument!---damn it to hell!

Nahh, I thought he said he played trumpet for K.C. and the Sunshine Band, or something ;)

111 posted on 03/21/2002 1:28:52 PM PST by general_re
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To: VadeRetro
Proof of creation?

No, existence is just "evidence"(I think we have been far afield on the semantics here) of such, as a Timex™ watch is evidence of a Timex™ company (although a certain chap named Dawkins -and others- has trouble with this concept). Yet the questions posed are evidently stumpers to Darwinians.

112 posted on 03/21/2002 1:33:02 PM PST by AndrewC
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To: Lurking Libertarian
But nothink in those links suggests that h. erectus couldn't be ancestral to both sapiens and neanderthal.

That should be obvious. Erectus is older than the neanderthal and visually much further from us than the neanderthal. At this point, in order to demonstrate that modern man evolved, you'd have to produce some new hominid (as a plausible ancestor) which was closer to us both in morphology and time than the neanderthal and, had such a creature ever existed, his works and remains would be very easy to find. Erectus does not qualify here since that is clearly going the wrong way.

113 posted on 03/21/2002 1:37:14 PM PST by medved
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To: RoughDobermann
That's not my area of expertise.
114 posted on 03/21/2002 1:40:43 PM PST by medved
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To: AndrewC
Yet the questions posed are evidently stumpers to Darwinians.

I suspect they were stumpers to everyone. Was there a real point? As in, "Where is the fossil record leading to chimps and bonobos?"

Probably with the fossil record leading to bats (but in the latter case I'm purely guessing). If it happened in an eroding, forested upland, you won't find much fossil trace.

115 posted on 03/21/2002 1:43:46 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: AndrewC
Anyone looking for proof of evolution, simply take a look below...

Sorry, couldn't resist.

116 posted on 03/21/2002 1:49:43 PM PST by RoughDobermann
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To: RoughDobermann
Then again...


117 posted on 03/21/2002 1:51:13 PM PST by RoughDobermann
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To: VadeRetro
If it happened in an eroding, forested upland, you won't find much fossil trace.

So forest creature evolution is undocumentable? Or does this unfortunate accident of nature only happen to chimps?

118 posted on 03/21/2002 1:51:34 PM PST by AndrewC
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To: RoughDobermann
Sorry, couldn't resist.

The sequence is mis-ordered. You insult the chimp.

119 posted on 03/21/2002 1:55:37 PM PST by AndrewC
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To: oldcats
Go to junkscience.com to find out how often "scientists" are wrong about many things.

I was going to be a Biologist at one point so I still like to follow such things.

More recently, it was generally reconized and accepted that the Human Genome project would prove to be 100,000 genes.

Oops, guess the science was not static again.

Only 30,000 were found!

That falls in the realm of magnitudes of error, BTW.

120 posted on 03/21/2002 1:58:49 PM PST by Seeking the truth
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