FreeRepublic: A place for "grass-roots conservatism on the web" or not?

Me

[ambrose]

I think there are two main groups on here now... True Freepers... and a new band of kool-aid drinking SHEEPERS.

[RAT Patrol]

Taking a tip from our president's stance on terrorism, let me just say that you are either for the Constitution or you are against it.

Sanity, sweet sanity!

[sheltonmac]

"OTOH, sign the Bill, The media is happy, so they leave him alone, McCain has NO SIGNATURE ISSUE to push himself into the Primaries, or to draw media attention, and when the Court shreds the bill, it will be DEAD."

Just like the Supreme Court killed the hopes of pro-lifers with Roe v. Wade, right? Wrong. If the response to Roe v. Wade is any indication, we should realize that one Supreme Court decision does not mean an issue is dead. Besides, the Supreme Court has already ruled that limits can be placed on campaign contributions. What makes you think this will go down in flames? I think the president could have used his position to publicly educate the people as to why this bill is unconstitutional and why he was going to veto it.

[Walkin Man]

If Clinton had signed this unconstitutional bill law into effect while making a joke out of trashing our God-given right of free speech EVERYONE on FR would be up in arms! It would be total outrage across the board!

But because a Repub did it, suddenly its OK to wipe your feet on the Constitution and break your oath to God! President Bush has made a grave error and he has been doing that alot lately. I may not have a dog in the hunt come election time, maybe I'll vote to stay home instead.

[Dog]

McCain is to busy going on IMUS to whine he wasn't invited to see his baby signed into law...

Nothing like a politican not getting a photo op!

[antidemocommie]

A true conservative never abandons his conservative principles. Voting for unconstitutional legislation is not a conservative thing to do. It only indicates that you are worried and that you must appease the left.

While signing unconstitutional bills, you alienate your conservative base as is evidenced here by the number of people posting angry messages about how our president is no conservative.

[Bitwhacker]

So why can't you stake out your position without the name-calling and the derision?

If you think the unconstitutionality or even the fundraising issues of CFR are done, killed, whatever, it's not. There is nothing to stop Daschle & Co. from submitting another CFR bill some time in the future no matter what happens to this particular bill. The difference is that we now have the spectre of setting bad precedent with an unreliable Supreme Court.

[RAT Patrol]

I know what you mean. Friends have fast turned to enemies over this one. I've seen the Bush worshippers chew up and spit out many people a week ago they called "friend". It's really sad.

[NMC EXP]

The president ignored his oath of office and deliberately signed an unconstitutional piece of legislation as part of some well-concealed strategy?

The only strategy involved is doing whatever it takes to be re-elected. CFR is only one of the more blatant examples where both the r's and d's in power ignore the Constitution. For some reason, CFR has registered on the radar of party sycophants.

The fact that the r/d leadership realize that they are rewarded with the votes and excuses of the true believers for their shredding of the Constitution guarantees it will continue to happen.

regards

J.R.

[Richard Axtell]

Well, I choose to support Bush, and at the same time criticize him, and continue to do anything I can to influence policy change in certain areas, particularly the fraud of McCain-Finegold CFR laws. I don't yet see Bush as a "Clintonesque politician"; one who would blithely take his political base for granted, while dishonestly courting the "center" by adopting issues and policies from the opposing side. Not YET, at least.

I am hoping he will respond to his base, and limit this leftward movement, and return to Constitutional integrity; either by reversing his stance, of promoting his own initiative for reform of "CFR reform" to eliminate unconstitutional aspects of that legislation. This would happen after November 2002, when Republicans control both houses of Congress once again. I am hoping for this and much more.

But, if he chooses to ignore his base, he will have ignored a most important lesson from the past. He will have violated a cardinal rule of politics, and will lose the next election... whether I support him or not.

[Bitwhacker]

...want to blame someone call McCain's and Chris Shays offices and all the other RINO who pushed this bill thru Congress!!!!

Sorry, Dog, I disagree. The President had a chance to do the right thing and didn't, IMHO, regardless of what Congress did.

[Marine Inspector]

I think the president could have used his position to publicly educate the people as to why this bill is unconstitutional and why he was going to veto it.

Exactly. There is no guaranty that the Supreme Court will kill this.

[hobbes1]

Yes, there is. The Unconstitutionality of it, and the Supremes decision will be pointed out, LOUDLY, everytime the issue comes up.

If you were awake, you would notice the beginning of the accompanying argument.The argument that will go with it, will be, we should be conducting the peoples business, not chasing this crap. Several senators led by Lott, have already advanced this argument, about Energy and Spending bills not being passed while CFR was Done.

[Gumlegs]

Depends on how you mean what you say. Yes, I'm a conservative in favor of smaller government. Yes, I feel I can criticize what the President does (or how he does it), when I feel the criticism is warranted.

However, I will not join the "It's the end of the world" crowd who threaten to defect to the Libertarians or the America First Party or the Know-Nothings when Bush fails whatever the ideological purity test is fashionable this week. He's an elected official. He will never be ideologically pure. Reagan wasn't.

I find it irritating that Bush isn't as perfect as I am, but I'm going to live with the irritation because I firmly believe that every protest vote in the last election served to undermine the eventual victory Bush won. It's undermining his presidency today -- just take a look at what the Democrats are doing to his judicial nominations. And if Al Gore were in charge of the country right now, I'm sure we'd all be discussing just how many square miles of the United States would be enough to appease Osama. I don't want to run that risk in '04, either.

[RAT Patrol]

If I had to vote all over again and the choices were between Bush, Buchanan, McCain, Gore, and Brown, I'd still vote for Bush...Did I mention Bush is a bonehead?

LOL, when you put it that way... LOL! Me too!

[Carry_Okie]

Ever heard of ends not justifying means?

[dts32041]

Of course now the press is saying the shrub doesn't have any core values, for obce they got it right.

[ken5050]

No matter how you slice it...Ross Perot gets the credit, OR the blame......look, if Perot hadn't run in 92, Bush the elder would have won hands down. Qualye would have lost to any Dem in 96, and the country would not accept a son running one term after his father...Primogeniture, and all that...so Bush he younger would still be governor of Texas..

because of perot, Cliton won in 92, and because of that, the GOP got control of both houses of Congress in 94..and because Clinton is evil, the dems supported him lemming like during impeachment, which is why Gore lost..had Gore been running as an incumbent in 200o, he'd have won hands down, and where would we be today?

[BigTime]

I made the mistake of posting my displeasure of Bush signing the CFR bill on a Bush Babe thread. Boy was that a mistake. I actually said that I still respect him etc. but I was disappointed. Man was that a mistake. Some of those "women" make the Klinton Kool-Aid Brigadetm look like amateurs...

LOL!

Here's another loyalist laugher: Bush signing an unconstitutional bill is just like every other president. Does this argument sound familiar? Does this ring a bell: hey, every president fooled around.

The people who are going ape crap over defending this indefensible act are pulling their swill straight out of the Clinton playbook. It is disgusting!

I hold Bush responsible for letting this divisive issue pit conservative vs. conservative. This did not have to happen.

Can you believe the number of people weaving these elaborate stories about how this really a good thing for conservatism? Give me a break.

[sheltonmac]

"Bush signs the CFR bill so that it will be declared unconstitutional."

And how do you know this? Bush has never said as much. Did he sign the education spending bill in hopes that such a waste of the taxpayers' money would be declared unconstitutional? Did he sign the Patriot Act hoping it would be declared unconstitutional?