Walker's World: The eastern question

UPI ^ | 3/27/2002 | Martin Walker - Chief International Correspondent

[a_Turk]

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[a_Turk]

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[a_Turk]

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[untenured]

Gen. Ilinc is very wise. (And that's not just because I have been making this same argument to Turkish students for several years. :) ) There is no particularly good reason for Turkey to want to be in the EU, and in any event the EU will never have them.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

I agree, I think Turkey should quit trying to join the EU.

[a_Turk]

Well, let our lousy politicians clean up their corrupted acts for a while trying to get in. I have bigger dreams than the EU, and I'm pretty sure they're attainable for us if we remain sovereign. Anyway, we fought and kicked those asses out of the Turkish heartland in our post WW1 war of independence. Why give ourselves up now?

[ellery]

YEAH!!! Why doesn't Turkey remain sovereign and join NAFTA instead? :-)

[weikel]

Im against Turkey joining the EU because its not in Turkey's interest or Americas. However I can't bring myself to praise the general because he also said Turkey should have Iran as an ally.

[a_Turk]

The general can see that Iran is a permanent fixture, but the mullahs aren't.

[weikel]

How good is Turkish intelligence an old fashioned covert op should be able to get rid of the mullahs.

[a_Turk]

an old fashioned covert op

by the CIA is what laid the groundwork for them 30 years before the Ayatollah..

[weikel]

Not really it was more Carter's stupidity Carter pressured the Shah to release tons of Soviet agents and Fundamentalist furthermore the Ayatollah should have been assasinated in France.

[Turk2]

Did you know that the Iranian Shahs have been of Turkish origin for the last 300 years? The Mullahs overthrew not only the Shah but also 300 years of Turkish rule. The reason the capitol city is in Tehran is also due to Turkish influence. The northern parts of Iran host millions of Turks or Turkic peoples.

[a_Turk]

That sounds very interesting. Where do I learn more?

[WaterDragon]

Why would the U.S. want Turkey to be a 'political dwarf and military midget'? And if Turkey is considering an alliance with Iran, how does that affect its relations with the U.S. during this war? For that matter, how does a consideration of alliance with Iran affect Turkey's own concerns about Islamism?

I don't see exactly the benefit to Turkey to join the EU, not on balance. Maybe short-term gains, but to do so seems to me to undermine Turkey's long-term national interests.

[SJackson]

Don't feel bad. The EU isn't a club America would qualify for either.

The history our great, great, great grandchildren read will determine who's right (the winners), but I wouldn't bet on the EU, though they might make a footnote on 21st century tourism (they have lots of ruins)

[SJackson]

That sounds very interesting. Where do I learn more?

I would too.

[Mortimer Snavely]

The Seljuks were pretty active throughout the area between the 7th and 11th Centuries until Jengiz Khan took dominance, beyond that, the best I've been able to come up with so far is this:

"There are two streams of opinion concerning the origin of Iranian Turks. The first maintains that they are the descendants of the Turks who either migrated to Iran in the 7th and 11th centuries or invaded parts of Iran at various times. The second holds that they are original inhabitants of Iran on whom the invaders have imposed their languages throughout centuries of occupation. The Iranian Turks live mainly in the north west of Iran in the Eastern and Western Azarbaijan and Ardebil provinces (capitals Tabriz , Urumiyeh and Ardebil respectively), the Zanjan province up to Qazvin, in and around Hamedan, in Tehran, around Qom and Saveh, Khorasan province, and are scattered throughout many other parts of Iran. Some of the central and southern ethnic groups, the Qashqaie for example, are Turkish speaking .

The Turkish which is spoken in Iran is associated with the Turkish spoken in the Caucasus, but it has undergone varying developments in various regions. The Turkish dialect spoken in both the Azarbaijan province in Iran and in the Republic of Azarbaijan is Oghoz, which is the mother tongue of the Iranian Turks. The Oghoz have two accent groups: the northern and southern. The northern accent is spoken in the Azarbaijan Republic. The southern accent is prevalent in Iran, where the people have been influenced by Farsi. The differences in dialect, and in the culture and customs in particular, among the Turks in Iran has been largely ignored; the emphasis is generally placed on the Turkish language as a whole rather than other characteristics of the Turks in Iran. Several Turkish dynasties have ruled Iran in the past, including the Ghaznavid, Seljuk, Safavids, Qajars. The Turks are thought to be the largest non-Farsi speaking ethnic group in Iran. Back in 1944, a group of left wing nationalists organized the Azarbaijan Democratic Party and established an autonomous government in the Iranian Azarbaijan. They were provided this opportunity by the presence of the Soviet Red Army, who were then a part of the Allied Forces in Iran. During its one-year in office, the nationalist government made Turkish the official language of the region. Upon the withdrawal of the Red Army from Iran, the Iranian army moved in and crushed the rebellion in December 1946."

From: Extract from the Iran Yearbook 1993

In Japan I had a good Iranian friend whose mother tongue was Turkish.

[a_Turk]

Why would the U.S. want Turkey to be a 'political dwarf and military midget'?

He's talking about the USA preferring to see the EU as such..

And if Turkey is considering an alliance with Iran, how does that affect its relations with the U.S. during this war?

Not talking about any alliance, but working today while focusing on post-mullah Iran, which sooner or later will be here. Look at the map. Iran is sandwiched between Turkey and ther Central Asian Turks, while Russia also holds a large number of Turkic republics.

For that matter, how does a consideration of alliance with Iran affect Turkey's own concerns about Islamism?

Again, not talking about an alliance with the mullahs. They will be gone soon.