Posted on 04/08/2002 8:30:32 AM PDT by iav2
And, as any true true Christian knows, it's just a stinkin' building. In the big scheme of things, this building is no more significant than the Safeway down the street from my house. Level it.
Purely defensive. I don't believe in revisiting history and blaming groups for what individuals do. But if people want to blame the Catholic Church for the Holocaust I'll bring up other history.
Those who want to pin Eichmann on Christianity better expect to have Kaganovitch and Bela Kun pinned on them.
Or the Wailing Wall.
Congrats Larry. Another thread for LyinLar as the first to recognize Christian bashing.
LOL.... why? I agree it is not that big a deal, but why would you want to destroy a perfectly good church? Such hatred?
Sure. Soon as I see a thread where someone doesn't blame Christians and Pope Pius for the Holocaust or claim Pope John Paul sides with Arafat. The second Holocaust only lasted ten years or so you know.I don't know why it gets all the attention. The first one began in 1917, was killing a million a year by 1931 and continued to kill for 50 years more. But then nobody uses the first holocaust for political purposes much, do they?
Those who want to pin Eichmann on Christianity better expect to have Kaganovitch and Bela Kun pinned on them.
No one blamed christians here, except you who blames off hand christians blaming the church for the present day CAtholic church's obvious embrace of definitions that only foment the war of identities in the Middle East. And yes, during WWII, the Catholic Church did not condemn nations defining themselves against other nations or races. Quite the contrary, it always was in the interest of the church to be at the side of the strongest in Europe, from before naming fiat emperors like Napoleon to today's definitions and ascertion of identities in the Middle East.
The Vatican is way out of bounds.
The Pope defined time and again Palestinians and Israelies. He should know about the jurisdiction of God that forbids any man and man-made entity from defining nations and identities, especialy when the blood of war is screaming for those identities to smash the inalienable contracts of man and God.
Earlier this week the Palestinians were attacking people from atop the Temple Mount in Jerusalem and the IDF responded immediately. Contrast this with the remarkable restraint Israel has shown vis-a-vis the Church of the Nativity standoff, or for that matter the videotape of the gunman shooting at an IDF helicopter from a mosque tower.
The fact is that the Israeli Army has accorded the religious sites of other faiths a deference that they do not even show to their own.
Once upon a time , you had to go to a liberal forum to find people who bought the lie that Pope Pius was buddies with the Nazis. Now not a day goes by that someone doesn't make that claim, or worse, on Free Republic.
You should see some of the agit-prop that's coming out of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. This weekend the ELCA churches distributed gave all the parishoners a letter from Presiding Bishop Hanson that was highly critical of Israel. They printed an accusation that the IDF invaded the Church of the Reformation in Bethlehem. What they didn't tell the churchgoers is that this alleged incident took place back in August 2001, not currently. Of course, the occupation of the Church of the Nativity by Palestinian gunmen was neatly omitted.
The "funniest" thing happens when one distances from the identities of terror, in the first place. Even distancing oneself brings condemnation from family, fellow congregations and friends. It really is unfortunate how trigger easy they all are.
Only an idiot would hold Pius respnsible for the Holocaust. That is no excuse for you to respond with anti-semetism. Two idiocies does not equal intelligence.
Pope John Paul II failed to stand up to Arafat. Then again I give him a pass. He is an old man in declining health.
The second Holocaust only lasted ten years or so you know.I don't know why it gets all the attention. The first one began in 1917, was killing a million a year by 1931 and continued to kill for 50 years more. But then nobody uses the first holocaust for political purposes much, do they?
You undercount the death from Communists. The figure is well over 100 million. You are not counting the Chicoms, perhaps because you cant blame Jews.
Israeli Forces Inflict Widespread Damage in Bethlehem (washingtonpost.com)
BETHLEHEM, West Bank, April 7 -- When Israeli troops banged on the door of the Christmas Lutheran Church and International Center compound, the Rev. Mitri Raheb, the pastor and noted theologian, was confronted with a dilemma many Palestinians face each day: leave his residential quarters to talk to the troops and risk being arrested, or worse, stay huddled inside with his family and allow the soldiers to ransack his office.
He took what he called the "calculated risk" and went out -- to find the soldiers bashing in the door. "I have all the keys!" he shouted at them in Hebrew, then English. "You can ask me as gentlemen, and I will open all the doors!"
Instead, he said, the soldiers bashed in 31 doors and smashed 57 windows in the three-story compound as they searched for gunmen and weapons. In one office, he said, they ripped out a computer hard drive and demolished a refrigerator, tearing out its wiring. They broke windows in a ceramics workshop and a small gift shop. They left bullet holes in sinks.
Arafat was being interviewed last year some time by a woman reporter, I don't remember if it was Arampor or Couric (please pardon the sp?), but some took notice that Arafat seemed to telegraph a slip up in his discussion. She had gotten him a bit irate and he slipped with words to the effect that "now religious sites would be targeted" or a new strategy a winning strategy was underway to seize the religious sites,...and then he made a facial expression as though he had said one too many sentances and his body guards quickly moved in and his entourage departed quickly from the interview,...I believe it was when he was in New York several months back or so,...I remember a discussion about it here and film clips of the episode on either Fox or CNN.
Now consider the tactic of seizing enemy temples based upon spiritual convictions.
It seems to me that this might provide insight to the significance of the '666' mark of the beast.
The strategy to seize temples or places of worship is being used by the Arabs for several reasons. First, the have a possible shield from their enemy's assault based upon their religious convictions.
Secondly, their Muslim belief has used this as a tactic to seize temples, change their target to their Muslim God in a strategy that assumes future generations will afford similar respect to their possessions when memory of the rightful owner fails.
Thirdly, a spiritual domain may be involved where the target is to seize places of holy worship.
Now consider how in the New Covenant, the body is considered to be the temple of the Holy Spirit and Christ.
If antichristian forces believe they can migrate between the domain of the body, soul, and spirit, physically, as partially shown by these encroachments upon places of worship,...then it seems quite logical that an effort will be made to assault the personal domains of the body, soul, and spirit in an effort to isolate man from God.
Considering the Digital Angel chip technology to implant subcutaneous biochips for personnel identification is being so rapidly promoted and the intensive continuing efforts in cloning technology, there is little wonder that somebody will attempt to attack the discerning domains of body, soul, and spirit of the individual man as a typical devise of the Adversary.
The strategy to attack and seize temples is second nature to these groups. I see nothing intrinsically to deny the same antichristian spirit from attempting this in the future with the temple of man, namely the body, soul, and spirit of man if physically possible. This would nicely explain the warnings in Revelation not to receive the mark of the beast, although this is not to read more or less into Scripture and Prophecy. It's understood that the mark will be used to control the conduct of any transactions by man as shown in Revelation, but I see do not see any contradiction here. This is pure speculation, but best discerned by others who may wish to study Scripture for its meaning.
Or Mecca.
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