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Scandal Brings Out the Bigots [Liberal Fr. Greeley Gets it Right!]
Chicago Sun Times ^ | 4-12-2002 | Fr. Andrew Greeley

Posted on 04/13/2002 9:08:11 AM PDT by Notwithstanding

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To: MSSC6644
If it had to be narrowed to "orthodox" Catholics who regularly attend Mass and do not dissent from Church teachings, the overwhelming majority vote against pro-abortion candidates 100% of the time. Depends on how you qualify the Christian denomination. "Fundamentalist" Protestants are not a single denomination.
81 posted on 04/13/2002 5:45:50 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
You're absolutely right! And if anything,it should make our faith stronger as a couple of previous posters mentioned.It did my heart good to hear them say that they pray more.And one more thing to remember,the Church has been in worse condition,centuries ago.There were scandals galore when God sent great saints like St.Dominic,St.Francis of Assissi,St.Teresa of Avila,etc.
82 posted on 04/13/2002 6:35:44 PM PDT by Lady In Blue
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To: Aliska
Nowhere do I say I expect perfection. I do expect honesty, decency and integrity. During Christ's ministry he railed against the hierarchy of his time. Never would I imagine they did some of the deeds done of late, but then maybe I've always been too naive.

As our Assoc. Pastor pointed out in his sermon a couple of weeks ago, Jesus chose twelve men to be His disciples. One of them swore three times that he didn't know Jesus and another betrayed him to his Death! So even at the beginning, Jesus knew that the men to which He was entrusting his Church were weak, selfish, and prone to dishonesty. But he still decided to 'build His Church' on that Rock who disowned Him. And it occurs to me that if the people who have betrayed us and our children ask for our forgiveness, and work to try to change the situation, who are WE to think we shouldn't forgive them? Are we more 'savvy' than Jesus; do WE know better? We need to think about that before we go talking down the Church because of the actions of a VERY FEW!

This is not to say that we shouldn't be disappointed and angry, but we should be careful that we don't 'tear down' instead of 'build up'.

83 posted on 04/13/2002 6:41:18 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: SuziQ
You have left me at a loss for words, but I don't think people should roll over and I'm tired of pious words of platitude. Everytime somebody causes a scandal, that's the script they pull out for the homily. Or it's the wheat and tares. Dumb me, I thought wheat and tares meant Christians were the wheat who had to live side-by-side the tares in the world. Little did I know it meant I have to have them smothering my spiritual life in the church.

You may be right about forgiveness, I suppose. That is between them and God.

84 posted on 04/13/2002 6:54:05 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: MSSC6644
The poll says that evangelicals are half of all Prostestants, so I think the terms fundamentalist and evangelical are interchangeable here. Of course you are not comfortable with it all. I understand. Life is tough.
85 posted on 04/13/2002 7:00:53 PM PDT by Torie
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To: Notwithstanding
Thank you so much!
86 posted on 04/13/2002 7:56:56 PM PDT by lara
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To: Lady In Blue
Me, too! I'm still skeptical of the old liverspot, though.
87 posted on 04/13/2002 8:05:34 PM PDT by redhead
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To: Lady In Blue
At least, for the moment anyway, they're not dragging us into the arena before the lions. Of course, one does have to be prepared for the modern equivalent should it reach the same stage as, say, the Sudan.
88 posted on 04/13/2002 8:09:16 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
One of the most loathsome is from Pastor Fred Phelps’ Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kansas. Phelps has made a name for himself for decidedly homophobic hate speech.

This guy Phelps is so over the top, I bet that someday we find out that he's a clandestine member of the gaystapo himself. His only purpose is to give those of us who love the sinner but hate the sin a bad name.
89 posted on 04/13/2002 8:36:14 PM PDT by Antoninus
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To: SuziQ
But he still decided to 'build His Church' on that Rock who disowned Him

do WE know better? We need to think about that before we go talking down the Church because of the actions of a VERY FEW!

1. Peter never buggered little boys. Yes, he denied Christ. How many of us have also denied Christ in some way?

2. Very "few" (your term) needs clarification. If Father Cozzens of Notre Dame is to believed (and I do), his book Crisis in the Priesthood claims 30-50% of priests are homosexual--most of them 'active sexually.' That is not "the very few."

I am very good friends with Father Tom Doyle. He said homosexuality is a problem in the priesthood "Big Time." Do a seach of who Tom is. This is a cancer on the church. All I hear is talk, talk, talk---and lets "censure and move on." They sound like Clinton apologists in the post-impeachment atmosphere.

When I hear the church is expelling homosexual priests, or at least sending them away for therapy, I will let you know.

90 posted on 04/13/2002 10:12:29 PM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: nicollo
That the Pope would have any place in the momument to the great George Washington was greivous and serious to members of a certain political group, the American Party, aka "the Know Nothings." In the middle of the night, around 1854, they raided the construction site, tied up the watchman, nabbed the Pope's stone, broke it into pieces and threw it in the Potomac River.

Thanks for the info. Strange that I've never heard this part of the story. /sarcasm>

Of course, we owe the de facto establishment of the government school system to the Know Nothing's too. Quite a legacy.

91 posted on 04/14/2002 6:37:41 PM PDT by Aquinasfan
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To: Eva
The left hoped to destroy the BSA by forcing Gays into positions where they could possibly "influence" young boys, but they attack the church for having allowed Gays to "influence" young boys.

Not really. In Boston anyway they're blaming Law for covering up the "pedophilia." Not one word about the number of teenage male victims.

92 posted on 04/14/2002 6:41:24 PM PDT by Aquinasfan
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity

 www.tcrnews.com  Dali sketch by Hermanoleon

Greeley's Dirty Little Secret?

By Matt C. Abbott

When one mentions the name "Fr. Andrew Greeley" among faithful Catholics, one will almost certainly get one of three reactions: a cringe, a laugh, or the proverbial eye-roll. Or, one might get all three.

Greeley is most known for his disgusting "soft" porn novels and dissident rants. Oh, and lest I forget, his seemingly ardent support of pro-abortion Democrats.

Now, some give Greeley credit for his speaking out against the problem (now crisis) of pedophile/actively homosexual priests through the years. And he has. Consider the following column in the April 5 edition of the "Chicago Sun-Times":

"Why did so many American bishops think they could get away with stonewalling and cover-up tactics to protect abusive priests? They thought they could get away with it because they did get away with it for a long time. They had carved out for themselves an immunity not unlike that which canon law envisages in a country where there is a union of church and state.

"In many, if not most American cities with a large Catholic population, the criminal justice system ignored abusing priests; it was the church's problem. When a case did come to its attention, it almost never found a reason to prosecute. In some places it still doesn't.

"Usually, the parents of the victim would go to the church. At first they would be fended off. The priest absolutely denied the charge. He was a good priest. Their son had a vivid imagination. If this didn't work, a phalanx of higher-up priests descended on the family, accompanied by the church's expensive lawyers (who had the deep pockets of the church behind them). They offered the family a deal. They would give the family a certain amount of money (not very much) for medical costs and psychological counseling (based on how high the lawyers figured they had to go to keep the family quiet).

"They would send the priest to a psychiatric screening and then off to an institution. No one wanted a public lawsuit. That cost everyone a lot of money. If the parents would sign off on the deal, everything would be fine. Somehow the parents, whom one high-priced lawyer defined as ''the enemy,'' had become the bad guys. If they hired lawyers of their own and threatened suit, the church's lawyers would beat them into the ground by running up big legal bills. They would threaten countersuits.

"The media paid no attention. Families were torn apart, marriages were destroyed. The parents finally caved in and settled. Another victory for the church.

"The priest would be sent off somewhere, return in a few months and be approved for reassignment by the church's psychiatrists (although they might not have quite said that exactly). Then he would show up at a new parish without the pastor being warned of his past. Fellow priests would say, 'he really denies it strongly' and 'the cops and the shrinks cleared him.' That was that.

"It worked. It worked for a long time. Only when a few brave journalists began to report the stories did the whole game fall apart. Yet many dioceses continued to play it. They blamed all their trouble on the media.

"Thus in his pastoral letter, Cardinal Edward Egan does not admit that his lawyers beat up on families in Bridgeport, Conn., with the absurd argument that priests really didn't work for the church. Another hierarch, now apologizing profusely, does not admit that his lawyers are still pushing a countersuit against the victim's parents. They allege that the parents are responsible for the abuse because they didn't raise their son to be cautious of males who were too friendly.

"So confident were they that the system was still working that Cardinal Bernard Law did not even bother to destroy the documents on the case involving former priest John Geoghan (which he could legally have done before litigation began and easily, if illegally, after it had begun). It was unthinkable that the Boston Globe would ever spread his private files over its front pages.

"Not having the gift of reading hearts, I cannot say how sincere the various actors were in his familiar charade. I admit, however, that it would have taken a monumental ability at self-deception to carry it off in good faith.

"So are their abject apologies to be taken seriously? In most cases I would say that they seem phony to me, though they may be able to deceive themselves about their own sincerity, whatever of that quality might remain.

"I would begin to believe them if they took seriously their remaining moral responsibility to the families whom they crushed. I won't hold my breath until that happens.

"As for the recent implication of Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos that it is an American problem caused by our 'pan-sexualism' and his excuse that the pope is more worried about world peace than American victims of clerical abuse, he may be sincere too. Or rather, he may have convinced himself that he is sincere. He may be the next pope. If he is, folks, Katie, bar the door!"

Hmm. What courage. What straightforwardness. Yadda, yadda, yadda.

Now, take a look at the following passage from Greeley's 1999 non-fiction book, "Furthermore! Memories of a Parish Priest" (p. 80):

"...But even in Chicago, the ring of predators about whom I wrote in the paperback edition of 'Confessions remains untouched. There is no evidence against them because no one has complained about them and none of their fellow Priests have denounced them. Those who have been removed are for the most part lone offenders who lacked the skill to cover their tracks. The ring is much more clever. Perhaps they always will be. But should they slip, should they get caught, the previous scandals will seem trivial...

A footnote says:

"They are a dangerous group. There is reason to believe that they are responsible for at least one murder, and may perhaps have been involved in the murder of the murderer. Am I afraid of them? Not particularly. They know that I have in safekeeping information which would implicate them. I am more of a threat to them dead than alive."

Now, if Greeley is telling the truth, and he ostensibly is so interested in justice, why on earth hasn't he given this information he has in "safekeeping" to the authorities?

This is a question that even Francis Cardinal George, Archbishop of Chicago, seemingly can't answer. When Yours truly asked the Cardinal last year about Greeley's aforementioned allegation, the Cardinal responded that he did ask Greeley twice about it, and that all Greeley told him was to talk to two priests - the names of which Greeley apparently gave to him. (The Cardinal didn't say who they were, and, for obvious reasons, I didn't ask.) But no evidence was provided.

So, what gives? Does Fr. Andrew Greeley have a "dirty little secret"? I guess only time will tell.


93 posted on 04/15/2002 5:51:03 AM PDT by Notwithstanding
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To: all
ping
94 posted on 04/15/2002 5:51:54 AM PDT by Notwithstanding
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To: EternalHope
It is true that the media is anti-Christian by and large. However, Catholics feel that they are often singled out by their portrayal in the secular entertainment industry and the media. You rarely get an unbiased view of the priesthood, the Sacraments or the Church in the news or in fictional entertainment.

Christians, as a group, are persecuted; Catholics, as the largest and older Christian church is particularly singled out.

God bless.

95 posted on 04/15/2002 10:45:42 PM PDT by Gophack
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To: Notwithstanding
Thanks Rev. Greeley, so why have you spent the last few decades sleeping with the enemy?
96 posted on 04/16/2002 9:52:19 AM PDT by Petronski
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