Private Governments? Critics Say Homeowners Associations Can Be Too Strict

ABC NEWS, 20/20 ^ | April 20 | ABCNEWS.com

[small voice in the wilderness]

What happens if, after you move to the community, the HA decides to outlaw motorcycles?

Which is EXACTLY what happened in Mr. Oulton's case. He put up his flag pole and the association decided it didn't like it, and changed the rules. This is why I don't understand why he lost the first battle. The rule wasn't even written when he put the pole up.

[Great Dane]

I have heard a lot about those associations, looks like dictatorship to me, there may be some good ones, but they are far and few between.

[sinkspur]

In the interest of full disclosure, you ought to let the thread know that you are against schools mandating school uniforms. Not only that, but you are also in favor of allowing a minor child to wear t-shirts, no matter how obscene, because no one has a right to tell your kid how to dress.

You're a pure libertarian, and you are being consistent.

The only problem is, pure libertarians compromise all the time by doing what their bosses tell them to do, buy buying auto insurance and having licenses, and observing zoning laws.

[supercat]

You recognize the right, too, when you sign a contract to buy a house that is governed by the rules of a homeowner's association.

If you sign a contract with the HA that, among other things, specifies that you may not paint your house green, then you should be bound by that contract.

But what happens if you buy a home with the intention of painting it pink, and then the HA is taken over by some people who decide to forbid pink houses. Should they have the authority to forbid you from painting your house pink, even though you never signed a contract to that effect?

The notion that any group that acquires a majority on an HA board should have the authority to impose arbitrary restrictions on all property owners is scary, and I don't think "blank-check" contracts are or should be fully enforceable.

[southern rock]

Now that being said, it logically follows that you would have the right to sell your property only to those people who VOLUNTARILY signed a contract prior to purchase, agreeing to future use of the property. Nothing is compelled, nothing is mandated. It's a choice made by the seller and the buyer.
You seem to be operating under the impression that the home owners in question, at no time VOLUNTARILY committed themselves, when in fact that isn't true. The truth is that anyone who buys these contested pieces of property, through free volition of each individual will VOLUNTARILY agreed to contractually obligate themselves to the rules of the covenants.

O.K. A question. If you went to a hardware store and bought(not rented or leased or borrowed, but BOUGHT - FULL OWNERSHIP) a new drill. You paid for it in full and received a receipt. But for whatever reason, you signed a contract with the store owner (previous owner of the drill) that you would only use the drill between the hours of 5pm to 8pm on Tuesdays , Thursdays, and Sundays.

Is the contract legally valid, or do your property rights over the drill sepersced the contract?

[Melas]

What happens if, after you move to the community, the HA decides to outlaw motorcycles?

All the more reason to read the contract. I've only signed on to one covenant in my life, and it didn't grant the HA the authority to change the rules on me. If it did, I certainly wouldn't have signed it.

I doubt that I would even consider living in a such a community these days. I much prefer the open spaces and small towns, and would shun any such agreement. That doesn't mean I'm agains the agreements themselves, but rather that I simply decline to commit myself.

[Great Dane]

You can easily get trapped in such a community after you have purchase the house, should the majority vote it in, things aren't always what they seem to be.

[southern rock]

The only problem is, pure libertarians compromise all the time by doing what their bosses tell them to do,

Not the same thing. Bosses are PRIVATE employers.

buy buying auto insurance and having licenses, and observing zoning laws.

True, I do it, but I don't agree with it.

[sinkspur]

But what happens if you buy a home with the intention of painting it pink, and then the HA is taken over by some people who decide to forbid pink houses.

When you say "taken over," what does that mean? Are the members of an HA board elected? If they are, you have a chance to get your people on the board. It's not unlike a city council, where you vote for people who may decide that the vacant lot down the road is a good place for a Wal-Mart, although the previous council had decided against it.

You have the option of staying or moving. Democratic elections suck sometimes, but the alternative is much worse.

[southern rock]

In the interest of full disclosure, you ought to let the thread know that you are against schools mandating school uniforms.

CORRECTION:

In the interest of full disclosure, you ought to let the thread know that you are against GOVERNMENT schools mandating school uniforms.

[Great Dane]

#11....... Great news.

[southern rock]

sepersced = superscede

[Melas]

O.K. A question. If you went to a hardware store and bought(not rented or leased or borrowed, but BOUGHT - FULL OWNERSHIP) a new drill. You paid for it in full and received a receipt. But for whatever reason, you signed a contract with the store owner (previous owner of the drill) that you would only use the drill between the hours of 5pm to 8pm on Tuesdays , Thursdays, and Sundays.

Is the contract legally valid, or do your property rights over the drill sepersced the contract?

You're obligated to keep your word. If you signed a contract, gave your word, shook hands, etc etc, that as the owner of the drill you will wear a pink tutu with green shoes on Saturdays, in my book on Saturday, you'd best stay indoors.

My question to you is: Why would you buy the drill under ANY condidtion that you did not like? It's beyond me that we can't simply agree that we shouldn't make promises that we don't want to keep. If you don't like the parameters surrounding a purchase, don't buy. Exercise your freedom and liberty BEFORE you give your word. Don't give your word, your bond, your pledge, your promise, your handshake, your signature et al, beforehand, only to whine about it after the fact.

[Great Dane]

Your problem could have been solved in other ways, if a home owner here completely neglect his property, you call City Hall, they will warn him a couple of times, then move in and clean up the mess, and give the home owner the bill, PROBLEM SOLVED, no association needed.

[sinkspur]

You paid for it in full and received a receipt. But for whatever reason, you signed a contract with the store owner (previous owner of the drill) that you would only use the drill between the hours of 5pm to 8pm on Tuesdays , Thursdays, and Sundays.

The example is ludicrous, but let's play along.

If you knew when you signed the contract of the restrictions on the usage, then why did you sign the contract or buy the drill?

See, you want something, but you don't want the restrictions that may go along with that something. When you buy a house in a neighborhood, you are insane if you don't check out the zoning restrictions. When you buy the house, you've agreed to observe the zoning restrictions (check your deed).

[LarryLied]

Last nights 20/20 said he lost but over his dead body was the flag coming down and he was going to the Supreme Court.

Oh no! The Korean war Marine ,George Andres, in the Indian Creek Phase III-B Homeowners Association in Jupiter Florida? I read about a month ago the case was closed and he won. The local paper, The Jupiter Courier, is on the net but it freezes me up when I access it. Could someone check?

[supercat]

When you say "taken over," what does that mean?

Hypothetical, but not totally extreme, example: the majority of the properties in the subdivision get bought by a group of people who work together to ensure that they get complete control of the board.

Slightly more extreme example: suppose a group of such homeowners decides to enact a policy that forbids any vehicles from entering the subdivision without board approval. At that point, the board may as well own everyone else's property, since they can make anyone's property useless if they're so inclined.

Essentially, the problem is that homeowners' associations often have what amount to transferable blank-check contracts. I would argue that any such contract should necessarily be void with regard to any terms not explicitly agreed to.

[small voice in the wilderness]

You may be right. But in the town we were living in previously, it seems that a person could own up to 20 dogs before applying for a kennel license.

It has more to do with having common sense than enforced rules. You just hope your neighbor understands what community means. It doesn't always work out that way, though.