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Japan Braces for a 'Designed in China' World
Yahoo (NYT) ^ | April 21 | JAMES BROOKE

Posted on 04/21/2002 1:36:42 PM PDT by maui_hawaii

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To: bushrocks
What does purchase power parity have to do with anything when we are talking about a global, and not a local economy?

If my numbers are wrong... then what should they be?

81 posted on 04/22/2002 7:08:11 PM PDT by maui_hawaii
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To: bushrocks, hopalong
China Finance Minister seeks...

check out the comments also...

82 posted on 04/22/2002 7:17:12 PM PDT by maui_hawaii
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To: bushrocks
...Singapore is still authoritarian, but S. Korea and Taiwan became democratic just a few years ago. Before then, they both had military dictatorships...

My point was that Republics are born in violence and grow in fits and starts. Those military dictatorships are a good example. I've been researching after my talks from other threads. I can't find a peaceful transition to democracy. I'm looking at Canada now.

...Localization and separatism surely are opposing forces to globalization, but I think in the end globalization will win out because ultimately capitalism can't be stopped...

Personally I think the globalization will stop short of one world government. It will most likely be regional governments with a unified world economic market. Nations will either be independent states within the regions or semi-autonomous territories within a state, like Nunavut in Canada.

83 posted on 04/22/2002 7:19:46 PM PDT by jadimov
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Comment #84 Removed by Moderator

To: bushrocks
Earlier, you claimed that it won't be 20 years before China makes up just 5% of US tech companies' sales, but then I gave you 3 links for Cisco, Oracle, and Applied Materials that said that China today already makes up 5-10% of these major tech companies' sales. Now, you make another wild prediction, and again I'm sure you will be totally oblivious to the facts.

-----

China has issued 511 billion yuan in special treasury bonds over the past four years which have added between 1.5 and two percentage points to economic growth in each of those four years.

---

The real question is, the other %... whatever it really was... where did the funds for that come from?

Let me tell you...

a) CCP industries who profit from trade or whatever...the collective is the money pot for building cel phone infrastructures and internet backbones... b) tax revenues...

The purchasing of big ticket tech items, whether they are cel phone infrastructures by Motorola, or internet whatever.... are built in this way...

Everyone conceded that this is going to happen already...

Motorola got up to about 15% of its revenues from China at one point...

But after saturation occurs, then what?

The cel 'boom' in China is trailing off... or will be within the next few years...

Hence the start of the internet backbone era...

85 posted on 04/22/2002 7:28:20 PM PDT by maui_hawaii
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To: hopalong, soccer8
I'm proud of myself... i have just explained the China miracle....
86 posted on 04/22/2002 7:34:15 PM PDT by maui_hawaii
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Comment #87 Removed by Moderator

To: jadimov
One point. Chinese GDP (or GNP) is much, much smaller if we look at exchange rates instead of PPP. This also makes a big difference in terms of how big U.S. GDP is as a % of the world. By PPP, we have 22% of world's GDP. By exchange rates, it is roughly 30%. Ok, now some questions.

1) Do you know of any information on U.S. % of world GDP both in terms of PPP and Exchange rates. I would love more info. on this, web links or even a book.

2) Even better yet, do you have any info. on the HISTORY of U.S. % of world GDP in terms of PPP and exchange rates?

3) Which is more relevant, PPP or exchange rates?

88 posted on 04/22/2002 7:43:33 PM PDT by crasher
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To: maui_hawaii; bushrocks
...China's "threat", especially to the US, is in no way created by its economy...Its created by its instablity, propaganda, and beligerance... among other things...

If China holds together, it will be a threat to the US in the sense that the US will no longer be the sole power in the West Pacific. China will not be able to take the place of the US as a global power. That is determined by geography. The US is protected by two oceans and two weak semi-friendly countries on its borders. The US is a sea power and by extension, an air power. Examples of this are Great Britain and to some extent Spain.

China on the other hand is a land power. It must protect the local seas but also contend with a long land border with large hostile peoples. It has had many small wars and skirmishes with India and Russia and must be wary of the Turks in central Asia. This requires China to maintain a large army and diverts attention and resources. Other examples of this are France and Germany.

Geography. The United States is blessed in position and resources. If China grows in the West Pacific, we can survive. The US can shift focus to the Americas and Africa. Those areas still have much potential for growth.

89 posted on 04/22/2002 7:43:58 PM PDT by jadimov
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To: bushrocks
...I highly suspect the US financial industry doesn't want Taiwan or any other part of China to declare independence because it might start a chain reaction that might fracture China and destroy the unified, single market that the US financial industry and the rest of corporate America salivates over...

A unified market can be a good thing and a bad thing. The unification of Europe is producing a common market for US goods but I think it is more of a benefit to Europe than the US. The Europeans are starting to flex their muscles and their main target appears to be the US. I believe they will attmept to shape us into their socialist image just as we have long tried to shape the world to ours. European corporations will also have enough muscle to beat US corporations all over the world. It is already happenning in East Europe.

90 posted on 04/22/2002 7:53:13 PM PDT by jadimov
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Comment #91 Removed by Moderator

Comment #92 Removed by Moderator

To: bushrocks
...Their democracies are still a chaotic mess ...

I don't consider it a peaceful transition yet. There still have a great potential to drop into civil war and dictatorship. It happenned to England, Spain, France, Italy, and the US before they finally settled.

93 posted on 04/22/2002 7:59:44 PM PDT by jadimov
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To: crasher
1) Do you know of any information on U.S. % of world GDP both in terms of PPP and Exchange rates. I would love more info. on this, web links or even a book.
2) Even better yet, do you have any info. on the HISTORY of U.S. % of world GDP in terms of PPP and exchange rates?
3) Which is more relevant, PPP or exchange rates?

Let me start with this:

First get the facts, then you can distort 'em as much as you want
--Mark Twain

There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics
--Benjamin Disraeli

If you ask two economists the same question, you're bound to get at least three different answers.

3) Which figure is more relevant depends on what you are looking at and what your goal is. No matter what you do, all you will have is a rough guess. A $10,000 salary in Hannibal Missouri and New York City are two different animals because of purchasing power, hence the index. When you throw in exchange rates, you are in for a headache. You can just use the raw number or go for formulas that determine the effect of policies on the currency. Just be clear which numbers you are using when you present. You can see what happenned in this thread because I was using one method and bushrocks was using another. Confusion.

2) For historical numbers I start with my annual Britannica set, an almanac, and an atlas. From there I go to the internet and cross check my facts as much as possible.

1) According to Britannica, the US GNP for 1999 was 8,879,500,000,000 out of 29,278,809,000,000 or 30.33%

I use Google.com for the vast majority of my searches. Try many many different combinations of key words.

Here is the official government site http://www.bea.gov/

I found this http://www.bea.doc.gov/bea/dn/gdplev.xls

And this http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45/016.html

94 posted on 04/22/2002 8:47:21 PM PDT by jadimov
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To: bushrocks; maui_hawaii
China is a joint public-private affair

Most of the 'income' to the US firms is from the PRC rather than the citizens. Businesses are chomping at the bit to sell their stuff to the Chinese when in reallity, they are sill not selling anything to them. They are, however, helping the PRC to obtain high technology, dual-use tech, and a nice deficit:
China sees record 2002 budget deficit
Honestly, I don't believe the Chinese economy will implode within the next few years. However, it is not as stable as most people think. The reason observers are concerned about an economic implosion is they fear the reaction of the CCP/PRC. The CCP has consistently used nationalism (ie the world hates us so the CCP is the only thing keeping you citizens safe) to maintain control. If the CCP has to use a war (such as we are under attack by X country, therefore unrest must stop and all citizens are called to defend the motherland) to keep folks in line it may well do so. See the article below for some background.
China's Hunger: The Consequences of a Rising Demand for Food and Energy: If order broke down, the Chinese would not be the only people to suffer. Civil unrest in the PRC would disrupt trade relationships, send refugees flowing across borders, and force outside powers to consider intervention. If different countries chose to intervene on different sides, China's struggle could lead to major war. In a less apocalyptic but still grim scenario, China's government might try to ward off its demise by attacking adjacent countries.
Finally, I know many countries have used low-wage jobs but have you ever heard of a laogai? If not, you might want to do some research on them.

95 posted on 04/23/2002 10:24:59 AM PDT by batter
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