CONTROVERSY IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH: Homosexuals start to attack Crisis

National Gay and Lesbian Task Force ^ | National Gay and Lesbian Task Force

[sinkspur]

Admitting to the priesthood those inclined toward the homosexual disorder, even if they have not acted upon this inclination and do not intend to do so, is also a problem.

If they haven't acted, how do you tell someone is "inclined" toward homosexuality? A fondness for French cuffs and fresh floral arrangements? Effeminate mannerisms?

Just how do you know?

[sinkspur]

When Tabernacles began to be moved into broom closets, I was dead certain that the priest's chair in place of the Tabernacle was in fact the abomination that makes desolate.

While I'm not in favor of moving tabernacles to broom closets, the rest of your statement is hysterical hyperbole.

[history_matters]

Coming from you, skinspur, I thank you for the compliment.

[Snuffington]

If they haven't acted, how do you tell someone is "inclined" toward homosexuality?

The same way you find out if someone is unlikely to keep his vow of chastity due to a fondness for female companionship. You screen as best you can. You ask the candidates to be truthful.

Will some slip in anyway? Undoubtedly. But the Church should not be a willing accomplice to this.

[Snuffington]

If they haven't acted, how do you tell someone is "inclined" toward homosexuality?

The same way you find out if someone is unlikely to keep his vow of chastity due to a fondness for female companionship. You screen as best you can. You ask the candidates to be truthful.

Will some slip in anyway? Undoubtedly. But the Church should not be a willing accomplice to this.

[blue jeans]

RE: At its root, the current scandal is about homosexual activity and the failure of individual leaders to condemn it absolutely and in all its forms.

Hard to say... that may be. But it appears there's two main problems. The first you've mentioned.... the second however being that you've got an organization that is more concerned with protecting itself and it's image than trying to have it's folks be obedient to God. Seems to me that any folks higher in authority that hear about such things should be OUTRAGED and should demand the resignations of those perpetrators. And then they should turn them over to the criminal justice system.

No cover ups. No hush money. Just house cleaning. Strive for purity. Same things that us as individuals ought/must do so that we can keep close account with God.

[EdReform]

Bump

[maxwell]

It's possible that the homosexual lobby, in seeking to cloud the issue, will end up appearing sympathetic to the accused pedophiliacs.

I dunno... They've managed to shove the queer agenda down society's throat, managed to mainstream (more or less) the gay lifestyle and whatnot, but I think Americans aren't ready (and never will be, pray God) for mainstreaming NAMBLA and the like...

I'm not Catholic and never will be, but I'm watching this controversy with interest-- the outcome will say alot about American religion and society in general...

[sinkspur]

The same way you find out if someone is unlikely to keep his vow of chastity due to a fondness for female companionship.

So, you ARE admitting, it seems to me, that a homosexual man could be admitted to the priesthood as long as he's celibate. That's not what you said in your original post.

And if having a fondness for male companionship is indicative of homosexuality, then why isn't every priest suspect, since he can't hang out with women?

[Snuffington]

So, you ARE admitting, it seems to me, that a homosexual man could be admitted to the priesthood as long as he's celibate. That's not what you said in your original post.

You seem to have ignored what I actually wrote. Here is what I said in my original post on the matter: ..."the Church should not knowingly admit men to the priesthood if they are inclined toward homosexuality"

Short of an act of God, I don't pretend the Church will know with omniscience the temptations afflicting seminary applicants. But they ought to act responsibly with the information they do have.

[Caipirabob]

Thanks for the flag, I missed this one. I have tons of Catholic friends who are literally in mourning over this who will be interested in this.

The fact of the matter is that a radical group with an agenda contrary to the church has infiltrated it's ranks like an invasive infection. This is the results. It is disheartening to all Catholics, yet there is no one who wants more to see it resolved than the Catholics (as do all Christians.)

The church will survive this assault and be stronger for it. I have no doubt.

[Snuffington]

And if having a fondness for male companionship is indicative of homosexuality

I made a comment about "fondness for female companionship" assuming adults of average reason would know the sort of companionship that causes problems for celibacy without needing it described in detail.

[sinkspur]

You seem to have ignored what I actually wrote. Here is what I said in my original post on the matter: ..."the Church should not knowingly admit men to the priesthood if they are inclined toward homosexuality"

I still don't see how you could tell if a man is "inclined" toward homosexuality if he is celibate. What specific criteria would you use, if you were a seminary rector, to determine that a man liked men, when he had never done anything to violate chastity?

I think you're on dangerous ground when you start "guessing" about sexual orientation.

[sinkspur]

You have a very vivid imagination for someone who spouts Bible verses about "lusting" in one's heart.

[sinkspur]

All the Catholic Church needs to do is start denying admittance to all those who violate God's instructions to all men to not be effeminate.

What specific characteristics come under the name "effeminate"? Fondness for fresh floral arrangements? Five or more Maria Callas operas?

[Snuffington]

What specific criteria would you use, if you were a seminary rector, to determine that a man liked men, when he had never done anything to violate chastity?

In a word, honesty. Ask the candidates to be truthful and serious about a lifelong vocation.

Will some lie? Of course. Just as there are some who deceptively become priests without believing in the resurrection of Jesus. And when their deception becomes apparent, the Church should act appropriately to remedy the situation.

It is possible to have such a standard without needing a full Inquisition to enforce it.

[sinkspur]

So you would tell a homosexual man who had never violated the virtue of chastity that he was not called to the priesthood on the basis of his orientation alone, which even the Church says is not sinful?

[Almondjoy]

You have to be kidding me right? You're telling me that your "direct connection" between homosexuality and pedophilla is based on "attraction" too teenagers? I think you need to be a little more in touch with your fellow man... First off the difference in "attraction" and pedophilla is obviously the engageing of a sexual act. If you want to base it on attraction to teenagers then have you looked in the your own neighborhood and addressed how many 21-25 year old's are going out with 16-18 year olds?

I really take offense to the fact and while you may be able to contain yourself 95% of men out there will take a gander if a girl if she even remotely looks 18.. of course as the smart people we are we muster only "they let kids wear that kinda stuff these days?" or something to that effect. None the less to assume attraction ='s pedphilla is ludricious at best.

Also it should be noted that homosexuality or the acts of it are sometimes a crime of oppertunity more than anything. It has been well documented in Afghanstan that under Taliban rule many men actually had homosexual relations because it was easier to get away with having sex with a man than it was a woman.. in fact one man blamed the fact he couldn't see women's faces and he wanted to sleep with beautiful people.. regardless if think he's reasoning is bs or not it's still a matter of fact that these situations arise out of oppertunity more than any correlation between sexual orientation and pedaphilla.