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Supreme Court pops 'question' to top IRS lawyer
The Washington Times ^ | April 28, 2002 | Frank J. Murray

Posted on 04/28/2002 2:58:40 PM PDT by xsysmgr

Edited on 07/12/2004 3:38:32 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

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To: tenthirteen
Hey,America is the biggest attack target in the world at this time.On another note,I really do understand why some people are considering leaving the states because of high taxes.Many major corporations and wealthy people have already packed it in and left.
21 posted on 04/28/2002 7:08:42 PM PDT by taxtruth
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To: All; Taxreform
I have two observations about this mess:

1. "For more than 15 years she practiced tax law at two accounting firms before President Bush nominated her in April to head the Justice Department's tax division."

The little lady lawyer is bought and paid for. Ask yourself this question: How can a person with any integrity argue cases for clients fighting the IRS and then take a job arguing cases FOR the IRS?

IMHO, a Real American believes that the people are supreme to the government. Apparently there is something in the water in Washington, DC that causes people who have spent their entire professional career arguing for the people to start arguing for the governemnt. Not very principled, are they?

IOW, for all of her professional career, she opposed the IRS and worked for the benefit of the people. Suddenly, she is an IRS lawyer, working AGAINST the people!

And we wonder why there are problems in Washington!!!!!!

These people come to this town and suddenly, it is in their best interest to use the awesome might of the Federal government to crush the people. What part of "of, by and for the people" do they suddenly not understand?

Washington DC needs a diaper change folks! And we are the people who have to do it!

2. The IRS seldom loses a court case. In most every instance where the Constitution conflicts with the tactics the IRS uses to squeeze Americans for more money, the IRS prevails. The notion, as expressed by many courts is that "The overriding concern is that the government get the money."

Dan Pilla wrote a magnificent treatise on this very subject. It can be downloaded from the Institute for Policy Innovation web site. This is a very educational read for anyone interested in taxes and the Constitution.

22 posted on 04/28/2002 7:47:07 PM PDT by Taxman
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To: xsysmgr
Here's an interesting twist. In some resort areas, especially where business is strictly seasonal, there is a tendency of wait-staff to over report tips. Even though they pay more in taxes, they get more back in benefits when they go on unemployment in the off-season.
23 posted on 04/28/2002 7:50:05 PM PDT by citizenK
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To: balrog666; taxman
I can't believe this issue even got to the Supreme Court!

From the report of the oral argument, it sounds as if this case is going to go against the IRS. Maybe somebody in the Justice Department decided he wanted this particular issue to be decided against the government nationwide (a Ninth Circuit decision only affects the law within that circuit, in the West.) That might in particular explain how O'Connor was apparently unable to deal with the issue that I presume was the basis of the Ninth Circuit's decision against the government.

24 posted on 04/28/2002 7:57:31 PM PDT by aristeides
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To: Billy_bob_bob
Any tips to a fellow freeper on how to get to where you got in life (able to live off retirement income) and to where your going (Some place warm, conservative, and not too much in the way of taxes)? It would be greatly aprreciated since, to qoute an American icon "I'm stuck in the swamps of Jersey". I'm only 37 so I figure I have time to implement your suggestions.
25 posted on 04/28/2002 8:01:11 PM PDT by MattinNJ
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To: MattinNJ
Some tips on how I got ahead:

1. You will never get rich working for another person. You have to work for yourself before you can start to really get ahead.

2. Computers and technology have been very, very good to me. The key is to find a niche where you can become among the very, very best, and then sell your services for top dollar. The best thing about twiddling bits for a living is that you can work anywhere on Earth, so long as you have a dial tone and a wall outlet handy. Of course, first you have to have customers!

3. As I mentioned earlier, www.escapeartist.com has lots of info about other countries that people are moving to. I'm still checking out a lot of info. Actually, I tend to like colder climates, mountains better than beaches. I'm weird, I know. Any input from any fellow freepers who have successfully fled would be greatly appreciated.

26 posted on 04/28/2002 8:09:12 PM PDT by Billy_bob_bob
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To: xsysmgr
Think this is bad? In Las Vegas, holders of Green Cards were over reporting their tips by up to 100%. One person in a family would work a straight job while 4 or 5 others worked under the table and paid no taxes. The purpose was to get credit and qualify for a mortage. The IRS went into the Imperial Palace and other casinos and dunned everyone for back taxes based on what those who overreported filed. They agency knew what was going on too. Caused a lot of misery.
27 posted on 04/28/2002 8:16:49 PM PDT by LarryLied
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To: the bottle let me down; xsysmgr
I kind of thought that that is what it said, but couldnt be sure. It sure is funny to see logic send 'crats into contortions the way electrocution does to the rest of us...JFK
28 posted on 04/28/2002 8:35:48 PM PDT by BADROTOFINGER
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To: All; Taxreform
And another thing!

These people here in WDC have no principles -- just chasing money and power.

The little lady lawyer will work for the Fed for a few years so she can return to private practice and bill clients $500 an hour because of her "experience" as an IRS attorney. W/out that experience, she can only bill $250 an hour or somesuch.

That is why so many of them come here and work to betray the American people!

29 posted on 04/28/2002 8:56:40 PM PDT by Taxman
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To: Billy_bob_bob
See you at the Gulch.
30 posted on 04/28/2002 9:08:19 PM PDT by nunya bidness
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To: Billy_bob_bob;balrog666;supercat;tenthirteen;taxtruth;MattinNJ;nunya bidness;Taxman

Billy_bob_bob:  "Oh, and to the 'Love it or leave it' crowd, I'm already doing the research to leave this country. I'm planning to be gone before the next presidential election. There's no future for honest and productive people in America anymore."

"May I suggest checking out www.escapeartist.com?"

I can assure you that you have made a good start.  The Escape Artist web site is a great place to start.  There are several other very good web sites to check out, as well.  Check out the Action America links page - Expat and Sovereign Individual Sites section for the actual links.  The links on Action America are just those that I have found to be very useful.  I strongly recommend the Sovereign Society for their free A-Letter and their large number of categorized links.  The A-Letter editor is former US Republican Congressman and member of the Washington DC bar, Robert Bauman.  I have found his insight to be invaluable in planning my own exit strategy.

Although I am not determined to leave just yet, I find that the wildly unlikely criteria for leaving, that I defined in my exit strategy several years ago, is fast becoming reality.  The recent passage of the Patriot Act was just the most recent stone in constructing the virtual Berlin Wall of US law that may soon trigger my exit strategy.

balrog666:  "Where are you going?????"

Billy_bob_bob:  "I'm planning on starting to travel to check some options out next year."

Here is a little FYI.  Primary haven nations (including links) for American expats, are nations such as:

(Sorry.  There is no single link for Nevis.)

You will note that several high tax countries, such as UK and Canada are on that list.  That is because the US is the ONLY country in the whole world that taxes the offshore earnings of both it's citizens and corporations.  So, even if the tax rate in the new country is 20% higher than the tax rate here, an investor who earns 50% of his income in neither country can recognize a 25% reduction in taxes on offshore income alone.  If you like colder climates, Billy_bob_bob, you might check out Ireland.  In fact, if you have enough proven Irish heritage, getting an Irish passport is a snap.  If you just like the mountains, but can take the heat, Costa Rica has some great mountains, but you will need to learn Spanish.  Belize offers mountains, caves, rivers, rivers through caves, Mayan ruins, deep sea and flats fishing and the best scuba diving on the longest barrier reef in this hemisphere and the national language is English.  But, it does get hot there, when you get away from the ocean and they are subject to hurricanes.  Trinidad and Tobago offer some of what Belize offers, but is out of the Hurricane path.  On the other hand, for those who might still do business or visit the US, Trinidad and Tobago is a 7 hour flight to Miami, where Belize is only 2 hours from Houston or Miami.

Those are just some of the things to consider.  Those who have health problems will want to look at medical facilities.  Some may be concerned with communications, airports or yacht slip availability.  Check out the Escape Artist web site or follow the links above, which all go to pages on Escape Artist, for a more thorough discussion of these issues.

I should note here that I just learned from Bob Bauman earlier today, that Dominica and Nevis are the only two countries still offering economic citizenship.  His very popular and comprehensive book on second passports and citizenships has just been updated and that new release is due out soon.  It covers just about every country that might remotely be considered a haven nation.  If you are considering a second passport, that book is a must-read.

Also, check out the Tax and Economy section of Action America for some interesting articles about how the IRS and other US agencies are driving wealth offshore.  In particular, see "Tick-Tick-Tick - The Economy Bomb".

I have been looking at the possibility of expatriation for many years.  When I first established my exit strategy, I considered the criteria that I had decided would trigger that exit strategy to be beyond even ridiculous.  I knew what it would take to force me offshore.  But, I also knew that our government could not possibly get that bad in my lifetime, if ever.

Today, only a few years later, I find myself going through my storeroom and garage, throwing out as much stuff as I can, in anticipation of the criteria I once considered absurd, becoming reality in the near future.  In fact, I now strongly expect that the criteria that I once thought impossible, will become reality by the end of Dubya's first term (and hopefully his last).  Actually, I would like to stay long enough to vote against Dubya in the next primary, in the unlikely event that we might actually get a real conservative running for President next term.  But, I won't hold my breath.

I think that you are doing the right thing in preparing, Billy_bob_bob.  The wealthy are already leaving in the greatest numbers ever.  Sure, there is always the remote possibility that the NRST will pass and reverse this whole situation, but the likelihood of that is slim, at best, while Dubya is in the Whitehouse.  Those who wait until things start to get really bad before they look into expatriation, will find that by that time, it is too late to gather enough information to make an informed decision and maybe even to late to leave.

Freepmail me, Billy_bob_bob, to let me know what country you settle on.  I'll do the same for you, should I decide to leave, too.

Good luck.

BTW, thanks Taxman, for giving me a heads up on this article and the expat discussion going on here.

 

31 posted on 04/29/2002 1:05:20 AM PDT by Action-America
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To: MattinNJ
Allow me to add to Billy_bob_bob's advice (reminds of that joke about the three southern boys Jim Bob, Joe Bob, and Bob Bob).

Always live below your means. Don't buy the fanciest, most expensive house, car, boat, furniture, food, or what-have-you, that you can. Always make sure you get the best quality for the dollars you choose to spend.

Save some money out of every dollar you make. Let it pile up and invest it regularly. A few bucks put aside and invested adds up to big bucks later. Make it a habit.

With even a little money, your options in life become much wider. For example, you can start a business or two without going into a bank hat in hand. And nothing will teach you about capitalism quite like owning a business and nothing will motivate you for success like a little bit of failure.

Finally, as you invest your money, discuss investment choices with your friends and learn as much as possible. You never know when one will have a real once in a lifetime deal or you will need partners to swing something big. Set your goals and try to beat them and success will become another habit.
32 posted on 04/29/2002 9:16:11 AM PDT by balrog666
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To: Taxman
Thanks for the link, Taxman. How are you buddy?

Whenever I do put my dinner on a credit card or debit card, I always write in 'NO TIP' on the bill. I leave my tips in cash so there is no paper trail to be used against the server.

33 posted on 04/29/2002 9:56:55 AM PDT by Badray
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To: Billy_bob_bob
Thanks for the tips. It's greatly appreciated.
34 posted on 04/29/2002 9:59:49 AM PDT by MattinNJ
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To: balrog666
Thanks for the advice. It's greatly appreciated.
35 posted on 04/29/2002 10:02:00 AM PDT by MattinNJ
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To: balrog666;mattinNJ
Balrog, that is excellent advice, and words that I have always lived by. If you always live BELOW your means, you have something left over that you can put away for a rainy day. Another suggestion would be to be very careful about what you spend your money on, when you go to buy something do TONS of research into it before you spend a penny. That way you don't waste your money on junk, and the things you do buy will work well and last a long time. Simple things like that can make all the difference between being well off or having to scramble to keep up. Check out www.epinions.com and www.consumerreview.com, I use both of those sites a lot.
36 posted on 04/29/2002 10:10:09 AM PDT by Billy_bob_bob
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To: Billy_bob_bob
or the boss will send some of the boys around to have a little talk wid ya.

Couldn't help but picture Capt Kirk as the "big boss," in the Star Trek episode, "A piece of the action."

37 posted on 04/29/2002 10:12:33 AM PDT by ASA Vet
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To: Badray
Ray, doing just fine, my FRiend. Thanks for asking. Hope you and yours are well and enjoying this fine spring weather!

That is a great idea re: "NO TIP." From now on, I will do the same.

38 posted on 04/29/2002 4:20:48 PM PDT by Taxman
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To: Action-America
Why, you are quite welcome, sir.

Are you going to take the ferrets with you?

39 posted on 04/29/2002 4:25:38 PM PDT by Taxman
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To: ASA Vet
Couldn't help but picture Capt Kirk as the "big boss," in the Star Trek episode, "A piece of the action."

HAHAHAHA! You made me laugh out loud and I loved it.
40 posted on 04/29/2002 5:46:45 PM PDT by balrog666
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