Posted on 05/04/2002 7:45:25 PM PDT by Tomalak
>>Well, I agree with you. And here is the crunch. Does it >>make a positive impact on society to have witchcraft >>revered as some sort of realistic, respectable doctrine?
I have no problem with "witchcraft" being recognized as a legitimate religious faith ... assuming the exercise of that religion does not harm an individual or society. If you can show me where it does harm, I'm all ears.
>>To have Wiccans honestly (in their mind) describe >>their cult as some sort of morally based ideal? I think >>it is in society's interest that such people be >>countered. Surely you agree that Christianity must be >>supreme above pagan, immoral superstition?
Well, since I consider all faith-based religions/institutions to be man-made, I don't agree that Christianity is supreme above anything.
I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.
Every national church or religion has established itself by pretending some special mission from God, communicated to certain individuals. The Jews have their Moses; the Christians their Jesus Christ, their apostles and saints; and the Turks their Mahomet, as if the way to God was not open to every man alike.
Each of those churches show certain books, which they call revelation, or the word of God. The Jews say, that their word of God was given by God to Moses, face to face; the Christians say, that their word of God came by divine inspiration: and the Turks say, that their word of God (the Koran) was brought by an angel from Heaven. Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all.
---Thomas Paine
"Do no harm" is the start and finish of Wiccan morality. As Roger Scruton said, this is not an ethical doctrine at all, but modern liberal ideas in their most basic form. It means that there is no right and wrong, beyond the harm you do to others, and that you have no responsibilities to God or anyone else to do what is right. Abortion and buggery are, therefore, a normal part of a pleasure-driven way of life. That is an empty and stupid doctrine if ever I heard one.
Not exactly right. VA was never Catholic, unless you mean Anglo-Catholic (Anglican). MD was indeed founded by Catholics, but was taken over later by radical Protestants who persecuted the original Catholic settlers.
I don't believe Roman Catholicism was ever the established Church of any of the colonies, except perhaps for a short period in MD.
Instead of decrying all this supposed evil these people need to be asking themselves why people are fleeing Christianity in droves.
Actually, they're not. It's just that most of them are leaving "mainline" churches and going to evangelical and conservative groups. This trend has been underway for decades. Such churches are not "respectable" in the eyes of most of the litterati. Those who join them promptly become invisible (as being beneath contempt) to the chattering classes.
>>Not exactly right. VA was never Catholic, unless you >>mean Anglo-Catholic (Anglican). MD was indeed founded by >>Catholics, but was taken over later by radical >>Protestants who persecuted the original Catholic settlers.Who cares? The whole point is that it shouldn't matter what religon people do or do not practice to be considered a good citizen. Whether Virginia was founded by Catholics or not is moot. More important is Jefferson's religous liberty legislation that kept the state out of religion entirely. Those of you who complain about Wiccanism have the burden of showing how it negatively impacts society ... not why you disagree with it (theologically).
Sorry, but if you think Wiccans are pro-life it is you who doesn't understand them. And how any objective person of civilised faith can consider Wiccan "morality" something worth taking seriously is unimaginable.
The face of Christianity to those on the outside (or at the door deciding which way to go) is people like Cardinal Law, Jim and Tammy Faye Baker, Pat Robertson (who is a good guy most of the time, but he only gets secular press when he sticks his foot in it, and when he sticks his foot in it he REALLY sticks that foot in the proverbial IT) and people like Chesterson casting aspersions on people they know nothing about.
They need to ask themselves, now that Chesterson has told me that I'm so stupid I'll believe in any old dorky thing put in front of me why should I believe in Christianity? If I had children why should I risk them being molested at the hands of people that will be protected by Cardinal Law? Why should I give money to people like the Bakers? Why would I align myself with someone that claimed God killed 3000+ Americans because we no longer burn sodomites? Why should I hookup with people like our poster who's obviously never read a single Wiccan text and calls it's philosphy empty and stupid? Maybe instead of joining these people I should check out this thing they fear so much, maybe I should investigate Wicca on my own, maybe they have other reasons to fear Wicca.
God almighty what has this forum come to...
Sorry. Wicca is a cult that encourages liberalism, moral relativism, witchcraft, abortion, homosexuality, lesbianism, feminism and the idea that your daughter can screw around as much as she likes without it mattering a jot. I think some of us assumed that this was so obviously a negative impact on society that it went without saying.
>>I love how obsessed they are with telling people >>what's in their mind, it's one of the greatest proofs >>against parapsychology ever.
I really don't care. Each of you should be able to practice your respective religions (or no religion) ... assuming the practice thereof does not incur damage on the person or property of others. Many people seem incapable of seperating their private theology from the public sphere.
>>Sorry. Wicca is a cult that encourages liberalism, moral >>relativism, witchcraft, abortion, homosexuality, >>lesbianism, feminism and the idea that your daughter can >>screw around as much as she likes without it mattering a >>jot.
Where would you like to start proving all of this? Hint: Your mere assertions do not constitute fact/proof.
As for the meltdown of the public face of Christianity you're quite right. It's only in those older more "established" churches. On the day of the national prayer vigil for the 9-11 victims I had to drive home from work and back during the prayer vigil, on my way I drove by 3 churches: one a large church of some flavor of Protestant, two little knock offs of completely unknown variety (one is named the Church of the Cosmic Christ, I'm not making this up; the other is actually where I voted in the GOP primary on 9-11 and I first heard what was going on). The big Protestant church was almost empty maybe 5 cars in the lot; the other two were packed.
They make no secret of any of this. It is part of Wiccan belief. Just ask anyone who knows about it.
Stupid? You personify the definition with your bigoted, perverse, and simple little mind. You couldn't debate yourself out of a wet paper bag, but you sure know how to sling your petty insults toward Catholicsm and christianity in general. You make me sick.
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