Former FBI Agent Dan Vogel Should Testify About the OKC Bombing

CBS 60 Minutes II, Daily Oklahoman, New American Magazine, Channel 8 Dallas ^ | May 9, 2002 | Patick B. Briley

[Nancie Drew]

In response to someone on another thread I posted the following:

That is one of many accusations.
There would be a whole group of Freepers that would criticize Jayna if she had appeared at the McVeigh trial and had helped him. In fact, I am rather surprised at that criticism.

She tried to get O’Reilly interested in it, but he cut her off before she could get all the information out. That was May of 2001. Jayna had wanted to bring out everything on the prior warning on that program. It was very much beyond her control. Our Governor Keating was on right before her and his segment went over and Jayna was not allowed to say what she went on there to talk about. She had every intention of bringing all of the warning information out. I have listened to the Quinn program again and Schippers just says it is now time to start speaking out. He is talking about speaking out in general. He does not say on the prior warning.


Here is a run down of some of the people Jayna tried to give the information on the prior warning to:

January of 1997 – Oklahoma County D.A.’s office
1997-Grand Jury (another lie of OKCSubmariner is that she did not tell the Grand Jury about the prior warning-not true- she was totally upfront with them but who knows what the FBI said or the D.A.’s office said to contradict her. One of the assistant D.A.’s did contact Bodansky)
1997-FBI office
1999-FBI office
May, 2001-McVeigh’s defense team. McVeigh’s lawyers evidently do not want to pursue the information.
2000 and 2001-Nichols defense team (both state and federal)
Congress (both houses)

OKCSubmariner would lead you to believe that he has pressed for the Middle Eastern connection all along and the prior warning. He was one of Jayna’s worst critics about what she had, along with Key and others. He wanted to focus on the domestic side. If someone has the long response I gave on April 18, 2002, to answer some of OKCSubmariner’s lies, feel free to repost it. I do not have it in a format that I could repost it. I would have to retype it. It explains why OKCSubmariner has turned against Jayna. It started when she would not return his phone calls in January of this year. (When she was at KFOR, the station had to ask OKCSubmariner to quit calling Jayna. He was a telephone stalker).

There seems to be many armchair quarterbacks on Free Republic. Jayna was trying to get people to listen but when there is a media blackout, it is hard. My previous reply would explain why certain individuals had lost their credibility and Jayna could not use them to get information out. If someone cannot find a way to repost it, I will try to retype it but it will be a while. I am beginning to see that it is a waste of time to deal with someone like OKCSubmariner who has a vendetta and will post lies. You can never win when someone is willing to say anything to make his point. In addition, I am very offended that OKCSubmariner would say that Jayna’s friends are being misled. I have talked almost daily on the telephone with Jayna. I have proofread most of her investigation. I have lived and breathed this investigation for seven years. I have witnessed her efforts to maintain her credibilty and trying to decide whom you can trust and who is out to destroy you. I have seen the financial sacrifice her family has made to get this information into the right hands. I could go on and on but I think you get the picture.


122 posted on 7/9/02 2:32 PM Central by Nancie Drew
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[Betty Jo]

In trying to understand all this nfo, I get a headache!

Soo, my method of handling all this is to take it slow and easy.

That is why I asked the questions the way I did above in reply # 30.

But now, I see that those are not enough questions to enable me to keep to this threads name.."Former FBI Agent Dan Vogel Should Testify About the OKC Bombing" .

My first question has now become "Testify where?"

I dont know anything about any of this except what I read, and see on TV.

I have seen Bodansky and Davis on TV.

Please excuse my ignorance in all of this fighting between you OKCSub and Davis.

To me, it is a non-topic.

In my selfishness, I want MOI , me , I, to be able to understand who killed the people in the Murrah Building and who is going to pay.

So far, I find that Tim was executed for it and Nichols will come to trial for it,some day.

But of course, it is not that simple,is it?

I will continue to try to answer my own questions in my simple way.

Please "correct " when I am "wrong".

I'm coming back in half an hour with some answers to my questions.

[OKCSubmariner]

The poster of replies #40 and #41 is badly and sadly mistaken about what they have written in these replies.

I pray that Jesus Christ will reveal the truth to the poster in His perfect way and time. I wish and pray for good things and peace of mind and heart for this poster. May Jesus wrap the poster in His complete love.

[Askel5]

What with all this sound and fury re: who had the real truth all along -- which would appear to be the Middle Eastern angle that had NOTHING to do with the whys and wherefores of McVeigh's being executed (talk about your blackouts) -- I wouldn't worry so much that they're sucking you into making a stink about ME, thereby shifting all focus there.

If for no other reason than it's being pooh-poohed as passe or somehow the False Lead ... do not let go your focus on the domestic side and let this be rewritten entirely as a Middle Eastern story.

I'd hate to see your plugging away at salient fact be sidetracked by some drama of Personalities and Inner Motives that might as well be moot they're so absolutely unprovable one way or the other beyond a reasonable doubt.

Just my two cents. Sorry not to be more clear but tired and turning in. Night, OKCSubmariner.

[OKCSubmariner]

Good advice. Thanks.

The domestic John Does deserve much scrutiny and exposure too as well as the ME connections. The domestic John Does and the groups they represent are still at large and could do it again just as we know there are ME terrorists among us.

You are right - it is important to not get distracted and lose focus.

[Nancie Drew]

One thing that has been revealed to me (OKCSubmariner is praying for me in post #43) is that Brad Edwards has no idea what OKCSub is talking about when OKCSub made accusations about Jayna taking information off Brad's desk. I talked to him yesterday and read him what OKCSub had posted on another thread. I called him because OKCSub has said this in the past, but in a recent posting he told it even in more detail, about his son being with him, etc., etc. I thought maybe Brad had said something like, "Maybe Jayna picked it up." But that wasn't even the case. Brad had no earthly idea what OKCSub was talking about. OKCSub (Pat) made the whole thing sound so sinister and Brad has no idea what Pat is talking about.

I want to set the record straight on another matter. (But this does not mean it is the only other inaccuracy of OKCSub). Jayna Davis has the utmost respect for Dan Vogel. She and I have talked about him several times during the last seven years. One thing that she has often said is that in his position as FBI spokesman, he had never lied to Jayna. Pat has made a statement about Davis fully acknowledging Vogel's misconduct as it relates to the OKC bombing. She has never made that statement to Pat. (And many of you will take OKCSub's word, but why would she say something to OKCSub that she has never said to me, probably her closest friend. You can take my word that she never said to me anything derogatory about Dan Vogel). She was appalled that he said that on Free Republic. I wanted to set the record straight because we have a very serious situation here. OKCSub makes his statements and someone, I think it may be backhoe, is sending his statements out all over to the media via e-mail. (I just read this on Free Republic but if I am wrong about that, please let me know). OKCSub has a reckless disregard for the truth. Most media outlets hopefully will recognize this. Many of them are already familiar with OKCSub (Pat Briley) and know what their dealing with. I have been told that there are several who will not return his calls. I have to try to address some of his inaccuracies so that he will not destroy the reputations of the people that are now being listened to. It is not just the 30 or 40 or so that read his postings. (or it could be even more with all those lurkers, how about it Ann). Evidently, it is going out to media outlets. This should also concern all of you that want the truth to come out.

[OKCSubmariner]

Jayna Davis refused to make the details of the Bodansky official prior warning notice public of the OKC bombing to the House from 1995 until 2001 even though I and many others urged her to do so (even though she would not tells the details). Bodansky told Davis not to make the memo details public becasue it was "too hot" (tring to protected government officails).

Davis was told by many for years and knew the importance of making the details public at the McVeigh trials (she knew that Jones wanted her her testify about the prior warning memo and was succesful through her attorney Jones attempt), at the OK County Grand jury and before the public for over five years and yet she did not go public witht he details. This was very wrong on Davis part in my opinion. ANd Bodasnky was wrong to keep the details from the public for over six years.

Why did Bodansky and Davis wait so long (six years) to go public? Waiting so long hurt the pulbics chances of having the FBI reformed before 9/11 and preventied the entire story of the OKC bombing and the FBIs and McVeighs complete roles from being known at the appropriate time.

[Nancie Drew]

Here is a run down of who all Jayna went to and when from Post #41. The wording in post #47 made it sound like she was not forthcoming with the Grand Jury. I have posted three times information on the grand jury.

This is where Jayna went to try to get people to listen:

January of 1997 – Oklahoma County D.A.’s office
1997-Grand Jury (another lie of OKCSubmariner is that she did not tell the Grand Jury about the prior warning-not true- she was totally upfront with them but who knows what the FBI said or the D.A.’s office said to contradict her. One of the assistant D.A.’s did contact Bodansky)
1997-FBI office
1999-FBI office
May, 2001-McVeigh’s defense team. McVeigh’s lawyers evidently do not want to pursue the information.
2000 and 2001-Nichols defense team (both state and federal)
Congress (both houses)

[OKCSubmariner]

My son David Briley was a witness present when Brad Edwards told me at KFORTV about Davis thefts from Edwards of my info on the Iraqis I had sent Edwards. My son was 19 years old at the time and a student at the University of Oklahoma. Davids still vividly recalls what Edwards told me in person about Davis at KFORTV.

The poster of reply #46 is mistaken about what Brad Edwards told me about Davis in front of my son in person. If Davis denies it, then it is regretable and if Edwards does not remember it is unfortunate. I have copies of what I sent Edwards still marked up the way they were sent to Edwards at KFORTV before Edwards says Davis stole them.

The poster should be very concerned that I am telling the truth about these matters. How is she going to feel when she finds out someday I was telling the truth and she was very incorrect? I pray that Jesus Christ will reveal to the poster that I am telling the truth despite Davis and Edwards saying that they do not know what I am talking about.

By the way, the phrase Pat Briley "does not know what he is talking about" has been repeated before by Schippers to my source very close to Schippers. Schippers (if the source is correct), like the poster of #46, are very incorrect. And a second source (very reliable) very close to Schippers now tells me Schippers admitted that Davis falsely denigrated me to Schippers. Could that be why Schippers and the poster of #166 incorrectly claim that I do not know what I am talking about? Has Davis also given incorrect denigrating statements about me to the poster of #166 like Davis did to Schippers??

Also the poster of reply #46 is incorrect about Davis discussing Dan Vogels misconduct with me over threatts my wife received after being told by Vogels wife about the FBI agents being kept out ot the Murrah Building and expecting the bombing on April 19, 1995.. Davis also knows about Vogel abruptly and improperly hanging up the phone on me on April 21, 1995 when I tried to give him leads about a helicopter seen above the Murrah building right before the blast. THe helicopter was also seen by Brad Edwards (KFORTV)friends. Davis also knows that VOgel tried to set up a fake meeting with me in 1996 with mitilita leaders (which I did not attend).

If I were to give the poster of reply #46 the benefit of the doubt, I would save the poster was not fully and properly informed by Davis. Did Davis forget these things or is Davis trying to deny things that she knows are true? I still pray for Davis and the poster. The truth will prevail.

[OKCSubmariner]

Please see #49. Thanks.

[backhoe]

It is not just the 30 or 40 or so that read his postings. (or it could be even more with all those lurkers, how about it Ann). Evidently, it is going out to media outlets.

Yes, it is- and since we have stories & counter-stories, charges & counter-charges, the only thing I can see to do is toss it all out there and let everyone sift through all of it and see what shakes out.

The only position I am ready to assume and defend so far is this- the truth has not been told, and much has been hidden.

[OKCSubmariner]

Please see my reply #49.

Also, Davis statment outside of the OKC COunty Grand Jury was misleading and deceptive in my opinion given that she knew the details of the prior warnign notice from Bodansky (March 3, 1995 memo)showed the USG had advanced warning of A ME attack on the Murrah building with the help of "lilly whites".

Also Davis caled me twice just before both of her Grand jury appearances to threaten me to shut up about FBI agent misconduct and about the prior warning notice. When I pressed her (during the second time she called) about if she had told the grand jury, she responded that she would deny evey thing we had discussed if I said anythoing publicly. Her actions and statements to me do make me wonder seriously if she was forth coming to the Grand Jury about EVERYTHING (not just the things brought up by the poster in reply #48)-I doubt it.

I believe Davis deliberately helped block ( and Davis bragged to me to me about blocking it)Jones from learning of the details of the BOdnasky forewaring memo at the McVeigh trial.

[OKCSubmariner]

Please see reply #52.

[OKCSubmariner]

Please see replies #46 -53. Thanks

[Nancie Drew]

I thought this post from another thread might be helpful on this thread. Here it is:

I appreciate that. I also remembered that she tried to get ABC News interested. I think it was in the same time frame as the McVeigh execution. It was someone from the morning show that I had contacted because I was upset with them for using Samir Khalil as an example of someone who had lost someone in the bombing. (his ex-wife). It started a dialogue with the person that I talked to and Jayna tried to get him interested in the story of the prior warning among other things. It is so important that people are now listening and I hope that some of these groups and people will be investigated.

As far as giving information to the McVeigh team, what I understand is that Jayna would have had to go to jail or reveal her source. It was something about it being a Federal death penalty case and she could not stand on reporter/source privilege, or whatever that is called. Then if she gave up her source, that source would then have to go to jail or reveal his sources which would probably put lives at risk. Also, there could have been a mistrial since the government was not giving everything that they should have to McVeigh's defense. The monkey really should be on the back of the government on this, not on Jayna, since they didn't want any of the ME stuff to come out. Actually, it was out of Jayna's hands, anyway, because Judge Matsch wouldn't allow anything about the ME connection. It obviously was not necessary to bring in the ME connection to get a conviction and maybe Matsch knew that. I don't know for sure why he didn't allow it.

Also, I believe Jayna was pregnant at the time and still technically employed by KFOR. Even though she had walked out, they still considered her under contract and they were paying her medical insurance. The lawsuit against the station by Hussain determined a lot of what they would let her do. She was still bound legally by what the lawyers were telling her to do. They did allow her to have her own lawyer, but he was being paid by the liability company on the lawsuit.


187 posted on 7/12/02 3:22 PM Central by Nancie Drew
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[Nancie Drew]

Here is another post that I did on another thread that maybe helpful:

I have known for several years that OKCSubmariner had been asked to quit using two reporters names at KFOR when he went on talk shows.

I am sure that most Freepers would rather have just good insight from other Freepers and I feel most comfortable doing that. It is not pleasant to have to confront someone with untruths. And you good folks don't know the inside scoop. If you were to put OKCSub and I in a room and I gave you my background, it would be so reassuring to all of you. I have been at my present company for 16 years or thereabouts and am in a very high level position. I come in contact with many prominent citizens of this city and am friends with many of them, also. I have written one lengthy article on the bombing back in 1999 that was actually published in a Colorado paper, but I am not a writer by profession so that is why it was just one. It was totally based on things in the public record because of my frustration of someone not putting it all together. I got that out of my system so have not written any more. I have been appointed to a state committee as a parent volunteer that had to do with education that had great success my last year in bringing a conservative voice to our decisions. I am presently on a county committee for my denomination that deals with ethical issues. Only about three of us are lay people. I am also involved in a national organization that deals with political issues.

Pat gave his background and it is impressive. But he has indicated that he is unemployed, evidently since 1986. I cannot compete time-wise with that. I have a new grandson I want to spend time with, I need to help Jayna with things she needs to get done and I have a full-time job. I will do my best to give some insight that may be helpful, but it is eating my gut out to hear the lies that OKCSub keeps on posting, and it does not seem to help with the Freepers to have my insight. Most seem to not want to listen and even think that the government is out to get him when I try to set the record straight. I know how Jayna felt when no one seems to want to listen.


189 posted on 7/12/02 3:53 PM Central by Nancie Drew
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[honway]

Finally, after reading through the differences of opinion for days, Nancie has made it perfectly clear.

Nancie:"I want to set the record straight on another matter. (But this does not mean it is the only other inaccuracy of OKCSub). Jayna Davis has the utmost respect for Dan Vogel. She and I have talked about him several times during the last seven years. One thing that she has often said is that in his position as FBI spokesman, he had never lied to Jayna. Pat has made a statement about Davis fully acknowledging Vogel's misconduct as it relates to the OKC bombing. She has never made that statement to Pat. .... You can take my word that she never said to me anything derogatory about Dan Vogel).

Is it not perfectly clear to anyone that has followed the evidence of the Middle Eastern involvement in the OKC bombing that the FBI, including Agent Vogel, conspired to cover up the participation of John Doe 2 and the Middle Eastern connection in the mass murder of 168 innocent people? John Doe 2 may have very well played a role in the attack on America on 9-11. The Islamic terrorist network that participated in the Oklahoma bombing certainly participated in the 9-11 attack. Mr. Vogel and his fellow agents have blood on there hands. Anyone who defends the liars that let the terrorists of 4-19 go free to attack Americans again, may want to reconsider which side they have chosen.

I would respectfully suggest anyone aligned with the lies perpetuated by the FBI in OKC not show up here and throw out accusations of lying against a man that has poured blood, sweat, and tears to inform the American people about the truth in the OKC bombing.

[rwfromkansas]

bump

[Betty Jo]

Can you tell me where I can find on the net the October 29,2001 ruling by Judge Ray Dean Linder that Vogel not be allowed to testify at the Terry Nichols state trial because Bush - Ashcroft - DOJ wont permit it?

[Uncle Bill]

Excellent!! Keep on presenting the truth to us my friend. I'm behind you 100%!!!!!! Don't let anybody get you down, distracted, or upset. You are a beacon of light in a world full of darkness.

OKC Bombing: Precursor to 9-11?

GOVERNMENT TERRORISM - From Ruby Ridge To Waco And Beyond

"Relaxing on Air Force One after the 1996 elections, Bill Clinton told a pool of reporters that he owed his political revival to the Oklahoma Bombing. He was in a reflective mood, looking back at the ups and downs of his turbulent presidency. As so often, his thoughts lingered on those first painful months after the Republicans captured both Houses of Congress for the first time in almost two generations. It had been a stinging rebuke for the White House. But then that bomb went off."
The Secret Life of Bill Clinton - Ambrose Evans-Pritchard - Page 3.

"President Clinton traveled to Oklahoma and handled the ceremony of grief with consummate skill. He visited the rescue workers. He held the hands of the victims. He said all the right things. His empathy was boundless. The polls noted that four-fifths of Americans admired his human touch. Overall, Clinton's job rating jumped from 42 percent to 51 percent. ..Clinton had come back to life, and the Justice Department was riding high. There was overwhelming support for the White House plans to enhance the anti-terrorist powers of the FBI."
The Secret Life of Bill Clinton - Ambrose Evans-Pritchard - Page 5.

PROOF OF ADDITIONAL BOMBS

Traitor Bill Clinton's Mentor:

"The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one perhaps of the Right, and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can 'throw the rascals out' at any election without leading to any profound or extensive shifts in policy.... [E]ither party in office becomes in time corrupt, tired, unenterprising, and vigorless. Then it should be possible to replace it, every four years if necessary, by the other party, which will be none of these things but will still pursue, with new vigor, approximately the same policies". [1]
Professor Carroll Quigley
[1]Tragedy and Hope - The History of the World in Our Time - (New York : Macmillan, 1966) - pages 1247-1248.

Ann Coulter's "Slander"
"''...the national news media maintain a rigid radio silence on Phyllis Schlafly, while endlessly celebrating mediocre feminist shrews. Her very name prompts derisive hoots from Hollywood starlets who couldn't approach Schlafly's IQ if they were having brains instead of silicone injected. To listen to the cool people, you could be forgiven for thinking Schlafly is one step above a cretin. In fact, Schlafly is one of the most accomplished and influential people in America.''

Coulter wants us to know that Schlafly's 1964 book, ''A Choice, Not an Echo,'' sold three million copies and helped hand the GOP presidential nomination to Barry Goldwater, thereby paving the way for the Reagan Revolution. She also was almost single-handedly responsible for stopping the speeding freight train known as the ERA dead in its tracks. A noted scholar, tireless campaigner and committed pro-life activist, she did it all while raising six children."

CARROLL QUIGLEY - A (Chilling) REVIEW - "Phyllis Schlafly in The Phyllis Schlafly Report wrote a commentary on Tragedy and Hope."

Laws To Make The Coming Dictator Comfortable In His New Position

"My vison of a New World Order foresees a U.N. with a revitalized peacekeeping fuction. It is the sacred principles enshrined in the UN Charter to which we will henceforth pledge our allegiance."
George Herbert Walker Bush - On February 1, 1992 - Addressing the world leaders at the UN General Assembly.

"The war in Iraq is a rare opportunity to move toward an historic period of cooperation. Out of these troubled times...a New World Order can emerge."
George Herbert Walker Bush - Before Congress on September 11, 1990.

"This regionalization is in keeping with the Tri-Lateral Plan which calls for a gradual convergence of East and West, ultimately leading toward the goal of one world government. National sovereignty is no longer a viable concept."
Zbigniew Brzezinski - Nt'l. Security Advisor to Pres. Jimmy Carter.

"Nationhood as we know it will be obsolete; all states will recognize a single, global authority,"
Strobe Talbott - declared in the July 20, 1992 issue of TIME.

Walter Cronkite Wants One World Government

"If we are to avoid a nuclear World War II, a system of world order - preferably a system of world government - is mandatory," Walter Cronkite - in his recent book A Reporter's Life Pg. 128.

"The proud nations someday will see the light and, for the common good and their own survival, yield up their precious sovereignty, just as America's thirteen colonies did two centuries ago. When we finally come to our senses and establish a world executive and parliament of nations, thanks to the Nuremberg precedent we will already have in place the fundamentals for the third branch of government, the judiciary."
Walter Cronkite - p. 128, A Reporter's Life, written by Walter Cronkite.

"Today Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will pledge with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenarios, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government."
Henry Kissinger - in an address to the Bilderberg organization meeting at Evian, France, May 21, 1992. Transcribed from a tape recording made by one of the Swiss delegates. From: Geoff Metcalf Significant Quote Series.

"We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supernational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national autodetermination practiced in past centuries."
David Rockefeller - speaking at the June 1991 Bilderberger meeting in Baden Baden, Germany.

"There are severe limits to the good that the government can do for the economy, but there are almost no limits to the harm it can do."
Milton Friedman. Nobel laureate

---

The Oklahoma City Bombing - Glenn and Kathy Wilburn

"When people kill us, they should be killed in greater numbers. I believe in killing people who try to hurt you."
BILL CLINTON - George Stephanopoulos book All Too Human.

"I’d like to kill all of these sons of bitches and just be done with it!"
BILL CLINTON - White House staff meeting during impeachment.

"Write down the name of that motherfuc*er. When I’m back in office, he’s a dead man."
BILL CLINTON - Arkansas second campaign for governor to a campaign aide.

"I can do any Godda*ned thing I want. I’m President of the United States. I take care of my friends and I fu*k with my enemies. That’s the way it is. Anybody who doesn’t like it can take a hike." BILL CLINTON - White House staff meeting regarding the IRS going after Kenneth Starr.
Source For Above Quotes

One World Government Coming To Where You Live Soon