Posted on 05/10/2002 9:38:38 PM PDT by RGSpincich
No dice. This statement was made in open court with the Christines and their attorney present. She was cross examined by Steele and the statement was not discredited. Christines did not take the stand to deny it.
You can start rebutting this accusation by telling us when the Christine's became aware that they could demand the state agency that took their children (one as she screamed and kicked saying she wouldnt "go anywhere with you") to arrange a visitiation.
Your accusation means nothing as you are clearly telegraphing your agenda. The child "screaming and kicking", do tell me when that happened? I'll tell you. It happened after the Christines had committed robbery, etc. and taken the kids after visitation was already established, you're so full of BS. When the children were taken from the Christines in July 2000 they were listless and emaciated. They did not have the energy to act as you have falsely portrayed. IMO, the kids went to the hospital willingly knowing that they would probably get fed. So you are fabricating more facts and you try to shame me? Rich.
As for when the Christines knew anything about visitation. It was included in the court ordered reunification program that was instituted in October. The Christines missed earlier court dates or they would have known sooner. They always had the ability to approach the OSCF and work with them. What you say about the kids being dragged off "kicking and screaming" by "the state agency who took their kids" is a lie.
I don't have the time or the interest for that type of discussion. I'm unmotivated to discuss hypotheticals, sorry.
Devastating.
So you are unwilling to answer questions about your belief system which go directly to the heart of what bias you bring to this discussion? I see.
My questions were designed to see if you were a subscriber to the modern liberal belief that parents don't have the right to spank their children when they are unruly...doing things that could hurt themselves or others, and to discern if you come to this debate with an antichristian bias.
I know many who hate Christians and anything associated with Christianity (this is a mark of most Democrats these days), and I am trying to figure out if you are one of them.
Unreponsiveness on your part will lead me to suspect that you are. I hope I'm wrong.
Live with it.
And it happened in Montana, the Montana State Police recovered the missing children. Not the OSCF.
"...if the original charges against the Christines WERE trumped up, would you agree that a grave injustice has been committed by the state against a family?"
Because your attempt failed.
The facts are in, the verdicts are in.
Brian goes to prison where he belongs.
CPS has many faults but it seems this time they got it right. Go after them when they are in the wrong. Defending scum like Brian(I feel badly for the wife as she seems very unstable) gets you nowhere. Unless you believe the doctors, ER staff, neighbors, etc are all involved in a big conspiracy?
Are you two the same person, or what?
Of course no reasonable person would condone beating or starving their children. If Christine did so, then he did get what he deserved, as I have already stated.
CPS has many faults but it seems this time they got it right.
Of course that is the question.
As you can see, I'm still not convinced.
Go after them when they are in the wrong.
That's the trouble. In many states, Oregon especially, the track record seems to be that they are not being held to account when they are in the wrong. That's what kills their credibility in cases like this one.
Defending scum like Brian(I feel badly for the wife as she seems very unstable) gets you nowhere.
A) If he is truly guilty of the original charge of child abuse, I don't defend him in any way.
B) As to the instability of the wife?...that could very well be as attributable to what she has gone through as it is to the character and actions of Brian. I don't know personally which is the case.
Unless you believe the doctors, ER staff, neighbors, etc are all involved in a big conspiracy?
Knowing how healthcare professionals and the social services agencies stick together...after all they both drink from the same public trough...I am slow to just assume that everything they say is the gospel truth. I also know how small towns can be towards outsiders and those who might be considered 'different'.
The bottom line for me is whether justice is being done...for that family, for their children, and in a larger sense, for our fundamental rights as citizens.
You and your alter ego have only one objective: to play judge, jury and executioner to Brian Christine, whom you adjudged guilty long ago...well before the conviction the other day.
Personally, I'm still withholding my own judgement of them, but I have definitely reached the conclusion that the Oregon 'social services' is a corrupt and out of control agency that needs total reform and oversight by elected leaders who have some understanding of the rights of the citizens of Oregon.
If Christine is guilty, that's fine. But he is not the only one culpable here in a larger sense.
The thread is full of extensive quotes, sources, cites and links, which you have been avoiding.
Fair enough. I just read a few more posts of yours where you absolved such defense of animals. These threads can get tricky because of the emotional component. Some of the questions you raised should be pursued, but I think there is too much bad blood on this thread(and other christine threads).
For the children, I think they have a good chance with their grandparents. Based on what I have read of the testimony on Brian, I hope he is given full access to all of prison's nuances. I agree with you on Ruth that this certainly has had to be traumatic but there seems to be some stuff about Brian hitting her too floating around. I will wait for more evidence on that one.
As far as citizens I don't think this trial attempted to answer that question. It seemed the defense of choice of evils was rejected but the CPS was never really on trial here. The mistreatment trial or a possible lawsuit by the Cristines could change that though.
Thank you for your diligence in looking at what I have really been saying. As to bad blood...wow, no kidding! ;-)
For the children, I think they have a good chance with their grandparents.
I'm thankful that's where they're at as well. If I knew they were deep in the recesses of the foster care system in Oregon, I would be very much troubled about their fate and future.
Based on what I have read of the testimony on Brian, I hope he is given full access to all of prison's nuances.
You do have a way with words...LOL!
I agree with you on Ruth that this certainly has had to be traumatic but there seems to be some stuff about Brian hitting her too floating around. I will wait for more evidence on that one.
Good call. Rumors and innuendo do not good evidence make.
As far as citizens I don't think this trial attempted to answer that question. It seemed the defense of choice of evils was rejected but the CPS was never really on trial here. The mistreatment trial or a possible lawsuit by the Cristines could change that though.
I guess time will tell.
Regards...EV
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