Christines guilty of robbery, acquitted of kidnapping (Christine Trial Ends)

oregonlive ^ | 5/10/02 | LANDON HALL

[RGSpincich]

Oh yeah...you still haven't answered this question either...a question designed...

I have already declined to be examined by your designer questions. We have been at this since last August, there has been plenty of opportunity for you to find out all about the posters on each side of this issue.

One case has gone to trial. The Christines were found guilty and much damaging unrebutted medical testimony was given. I find it a calculated move on your part to, now, start demanding answers to essay questions about a single poster's beliefs. And then badger the poster who politely declines.

It could be considered an attempt to divert attention from the actual facts of this case. FYI. I don't think of Brian at all in a religous sense.

[EternalVigilance]

I have already declined to be examined by your designer questions.

I can see that.

We have been at this since last August, there has been plenty of opportunity for you to find out all about the posters on each side of this issue.

Perhaps you have made this a bit more personal than necessary? Maybe you need a vacation?

One case has gone to trial. The Christines were found guilty and much damaging unrebutted medical testimony was given.

Yes, you have made your case that the Christines had an incompetent attorney.

I find it a calculated move on your part to, now, start demanding answers to essay questions about a single poster's beliefs.

You're right. It was calculated...calculated to get to the core issues that surround this emotional case.

And then badger the poster who politely declines.

We love to badger the witness in this courtroom...its a tradition.

It could be considered an attempt to divert attention from the actual facts of this case.

It could be, if you already have your mind made up...as you so obviously have for a long, long time.

FYI. I don't think of Brian at all in a religous sense.

Good. I'm gratified to hear that you are not one of those.

[Demidog]

Your accusation means nothing

I didn't make an accusation. The fact that you are howling like a stuck pig now is a testament to the legitimacy of the question I posed. I'll assume since you can only answer by forwarding previously rebutted canards about missed court dates and the like, that you don't have any information about when and where SCF notified the Christines they could demand visitation.

[RGSpincich]

I didn't make an accusation.

You can start rebutting this accusation by telling us when the Christine's became aware...

Make up your mind.

Read my answer again. Your missing all kinds of stuff.

[ThreeYearLurker]

Excuse me while I bust in your arguement, but I posted this last week. Basically the thinnest Bethany should have weighed should have been 34 pounds.

Posted by ThreeYearLurker to ThreeYearLurker On News/Activism May 2 9:19 AM #54 of 128

Here's some Evidence

This is a growth chart that my Pediatrician uses. A five year old girl should weigh approximately 40 pounds. That is the 50th percentile, or average weight. This chart shows the 5th through 95th percentile. If they were very skinny, they could be in the 5th percentile, meaning 19 out of twenty kids would weigh more than them. This is 34 pounds. The fact that the oldest girl only weighed 25 pounds is evidence enough. This is at least five standard deviations below the average and cause for alarm by anyone. No wonder the kids had to spend five days in the hospital.

[RGSpincich]

Here is a family caught up in the system. Perhaps unjustly. Why have they not received the same attention here as the Christines have? I don't know why. Can only speculate that they don't have the same connections.

Link

Parents Accused of Kidnapping Caught

March 29, 2002
By Editorial Staff

BOISE - The Boise couple wanted on felony kidnaping charges in connection with the disappearance of their three children have been arrested by Oregon State Police in Umatilla County, just inside the Oregon state line. All three of their children are reported to be fine.

Dorothy and John Riveras took their children and failed to return them to Health and Welfare Social Workers. The agency has sole custody of 12-year old Mallorie Riveras, 9-year old Shane Riveras and 4-year old Dillon Riveras, who became wards of the state because of what authorities call an ongoing problem of domestic violence in the home. The children were placed into foster care and John and Dorothy Riveras were granted supervised visitation rights.

In December, the couple told their social worker they would return the children to the foster home at the end of a visit, but did not.

This week, Detective Dale Rogers received information that the Riveras family was staying at a home in Walla Walla, Washington. Acting on the information, Detective Rogers asked police officers there to check the location. The Riveras's reportedly attempted to flee the area with their children in their car. The couple was arrested just across the state line in Oregon.

Plans to extradite of the couple, and bring the children back to Idaho are currently underway.

[EternalVigilance]

The fact that the oldest girl only weighed 25 pounds is evidence enough.

You may be correct. Maybe not. I wouldn't call it definitive proof, as you seem to think it is. Every scale has someone at the bottom, and someone at the top, and this family is reportedly quite slight in build.

Do you know the height and weight of the parents?

[RGSpincich]

Seems like the Riveras couple is only accused of domestic violence on each other. Doesn't say anything about mistreatment of the kids. Should be something to work with here for the many posters who are convinced that CPS agencies are corrupt. I would join in if the Riveras are being charged unjustly.

All three of their children are in legal custody of the state and living in a foster home. I'll keep looking for information on their case. Would you be interested in developing a strategy to fight the system that is breaking up this family?

[EternalVigilance]

Would you be interested in developing a strategy to fight the system that is breaking up this family?

Any fix for the system in OR is going to have to come through its citizens, its Governor, its legislators, or a U.S. Atorney with some guts.

[TruthWillWin]

My post (#195): As I recall your original post of the "Christine Sacrificed" was not an article, it was from an email from Michael Sieradzke.. (Or perhaps you said it was from his wife, I'm not exactly sure, but it was not an article.) You are the person that brought his email to the FR.

Your response (#268): Your recollections do not support your assertions.

You are having a problem getting many things correct Demidog. From your original "The Christines Sacrificed" Thread:

Source: email
Published: 08/12/2001 Author: Michaeal Sieradzki
Posted on 08/11/2001 07:51:26 PDT by Demidog

Michael's wife sent me this. They both are in Grant's Pass fighting for the Christines.

You made no mention of any "article" on this thread you posted.

[RGSpincich]

Any fix for the system in OR is going to have to come through its citizens, its Governor, its legislators, or a U.S. Atorney with some guts.

So they are no different from the Christines in that respect. Why do you think there is so much attention for the Christines and not the Riveras?

[F.J. Mitchell]

As long as so many gullible swallow the lies of the organized and super funded anti-family scum in high places,the families of modest means are helpless to defend themselves.

This,"for the Children" battle cry from the pro-abortionist of the murder incorporated left is pure BS.

[TruthWillWin]

As long as so many gullible swallow the lies of the organized and super funded anti-family scum in high places,the families of modest means are helpless to defend themselves.

Anti-family does not appear to apply in the Christine matter, the children were placed with members of the family.

[Demidog]

I didn't bring them here. You are spitting in the wind.

[Demidog]

Why do you think there is so much attention for the Christines and not the Riveras?

Because this is the first we've heard of it perhaps? Why is it that you alwasy ascribe the worst motives on everyone but yourself? You're an insulting troll who thrives on missing the point.

[RGSpincich]

Because this is the first we've heard of it perhaps? Why is it that you alwasy ascribe the worst motives on everyone but yourself?

Okay, but it was posted here on 3/29/02. You would think that the government watchdog groups would have latched onto it, too. What about your buddies in Grant Pass. On the heels of Christine, this is a great "window of opportunity". Showing how yet another family is forced to kidnap their kids back.

Why is it they haven't picked up on it? What is your problem with me asking that and which motives are you speaking of?

Another poster brought the "system" into the discussion and I said that I didn't want to discuss hyotheticals. This new case would provide a new basis, void of this emotion, to discuss the child protection system. Work on your manners.

an insulting troll who thrives on missing the point

You haven't been doing too well yourself.

[Demidog]

Okay, but it was posted here on 3/29/02.

And? Since 9/11 this site has purged most of its anti-government types because they don't believe Bush is a patriot. I didn't see the article. That's supposed to mean something sinister? Get a grip.

[RGSpincich]

Get a grip.

What's sinister got to do with it?

And

Lots of people out there watchdogging the government, particularily in Oregon. You'd think that this was too good to pass up. Especially on the heels of Christine. "It happened again!"

[My back yard]

I've been thinking....8^) I'm not a lawyer or anything. But, it does seem strange for both sides to allow this trial before the other? If the other trial had happened first, and the Christine's found to be innocent, there would have been no abuse or neglect evidence allowed (very damnable to that jury, I'm sure.) Why did their lawyer allow it to go on before the finding of guilt or innocence in the child abuse charges? Did he have a choice? If so, the evidence on those charges must be considerable; or he's just a very bad lawyer.

And, I've always wondered if there are any photographs of the children in their state of malnutrition and neglect? I would think the hospital crew would have taken some. Don't they normally take photos of such children?

I'm not defending these people here, at all. Just wondering.

I'm glad the children are in the care of the grandparents.

[Roscoe]

Why do you think there is so much attention for the Christines and not the Riveras?

The Riveras are the wrong race for the Steele crowd.