Posted on 05/11/2002 7:04:41 PM PDT by Shermy
But the people arent' allowed to own guns like in the US. We let te government take away our rights. They now removed the right of safety of the consitution (thank socialists/liberals) and self defence is more punishable than the crime the criminal was going to do. The only time police were quick to arrest anyone was the Fortuyn killer.
Absolutely correct.
Maybe.
With most semi-auto weapons, the gun 'likes' some ammo and does not 'like' other ammo. What that means is that if you are firing 5-round strings at a target (say 25 yards,) the 'likeable' ammo will group more tightly than the 'not-likeable' ammo. So you practice with various brands, weights, etc., of ammo until you find the one which is 'likeable' for your weapon.
Another thing: 9mm ammo comes in all different weights (measured by grains of lead in the bullet,) from 90 grains up to 147.
The heavier rounds tend to fire higher on the target. So if your ammo is firing low, go up a weight class until you find the weight which fires dead-on point of aim.
Does it take practice to shoot someone at close range? Not really, depending on the meaning of 'close.'
Out to 10 yards or so, you have to really be a bozo to miss a human being. At 25 yards, you may miss point of aim by up to 6" (on the target,) depending on the typical factors: hurry, adrenaline, etc.
If the victims were 5 to 10 feet away (1.5 to 3.0 meters) killing them is not difficult.
This does presume that one has practiced--say a thousand rounds a year (not too much practice, BTW; Olympians and the professionals do around 2,000 rounds/week.)
Regarding posts #10 and the info from the start about witnesses saying they saw "militant types" in the area before Fortuyn was shot: I was thinking others may have known of his plan and helped him with target surveillance on the day of the hit and possibly at other times. I realize all of these greenie types wouldn't want to physically kill themselves, but I hear a lot of them wish death on their "enemies" and the enemies of animals and it is documented that they work in a loosely associated network- particularly ALF and ELF and openly advocate criminal activity.
I figure the shooter probably realized he needed help (lookouts etc) and had a few of the ones who agreed with the shooting posted around the site of the Fortuyn assassination in this lookout capacity. They could have helped tail him to that location as well. It would be so easy if they all had cell phones. Just before the shooting the shooter could have given them a heads up, they could have used these extra moments to flee- lessening the chances of their own detection- the shooter does his deed and then tries to get away on his own.
It also wouldn't surprise me at all that via this ELF/ALF system the arsonists and monkeywrenchers (and lately assassins) have some method of anonymously reporting their deeds so ELF/ALF knows that someone from the "revolution" is the one that has done the deed. They like to post these little victories on their website- it's good for morale. The USA is a big place as is Europe- hard to keep up with every little chicken house fire. Surely, someone is telling someone else- somehow.
I am surprised Mr.Fortuyn's murderer didn't use a rifle from a distance that would have allowed his escape.Up close and personal with a pistol he had to know an escape wasn't likely.
Someone being paid to kill would do whatever it took not to get caught,I would think.
That's a good point. I wonder what else this character has done in the past (assuming they succeed in hanging the other murder on him as well)? If he indeed figured he would get caught, he was in effect "giving himself up for the cause". He would have viewed this as the "ultimate" contribution, I suppose, for whatever it is he stands for. Perhaps hoping to spur on the next guy to "martyr" themselves as well.
It makes me angry that Gerhard Schroeder and Tony Blair are now thumping their pulpits saying we (Europe) need to quell the "Rise of the Right". What you would think they'd be concerned with is the rise in extremism of other types. Here they've had a politician get murdered and they basically say they agree idealistically with the assassin by saying the "Right must be put down".
With the election so near,maybe the murderer just had to take his best shot when he got the chance and the heck with the consequences.
The older 9MM Largo is 9x23 also but not as high pressure as the 9x23 Winchester so it doesn't pack as much punch.I believe both will use the same reloading dies but the Largo would have to have a lighter load.
I haven't used the 9x23 Winchester myself and am going from what I've heard and my memory on this.
My hope had been that it would provide a good clue so as to trace the killer's past movements. I'm sure he could have bought the bullets on the black market with no trace but if he did buy them legitimately, maybe the people that sold him the ammo will remember seeing someone else with him and then the police could round them up. I bet there's a nest of these little extremists somewhere. They may not all be guilty of murder, but there's still arson, extortion and other things they may have done or will do in the future.
Plus, too, I had been thinking they got the ammo sent to them from some extremists in the States who could get hold of the ammo easier. If there's a connection there it'd be great to expose it.
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