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Sign language study gains, but not without controversy
Miami Herald ^ | May 13, 2002 | AP

Posted on 05/13/2002 5:54:27 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife

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To: *Education News
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21 posted on 05/13/2002 11:14:30 AM PDT by Free the USA
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To: sixtycyclehum
You wrote the following statement... "My gut feel is that deaf parents who don't want to have their kids hear, are simply being selfish and don't want their children to excel at anything."

From this I extracted two statements. The second one was "deaf parents who don't want to have their kids hear don't want their children to excel at anything". I think I was pretty accurate and fair. The part about ASL being Abuse was from Steve0113's post. If you would have read to To: line or even the first sentence "Three things you two posted amaze me" their would have been less chance of a misunderstanding. I think someone needs to read more carefully, and I don't think it's me.

Now lets get to a difference issue. You wrote "What I also find particularly appalling (for me) are the cases where there is a good chance of having a deaf child, and the parents go ahead and give birth to a deaf child - pretty damn cruel in my book." So if I understand you correctly, you find it appalling that hereditary deaf people have children? These are my words, and not yours, but they seem to fit. The way you worded the statement, it almost seems that you would prefer abortion, but I'm sure it was just poorly worded.

22 posted on 05/13/2002 11:14:34 AM PDT by Tao Yin
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To: Steve0113
... those who converse only in ASL tend to be illiterate in written English. Without a one-to-one correlation between a gesture and an English word, there can be no written language beyond the most primitive level. I've seen the writing of many ASL users, and it is usually unintelligible.

Those who converse only in Spanish, German, Japanese, and Chinese tend to be illiterate in written English, also. There is no one-to-one correlation between Chinese symbols and English words, but once-Chinese-only speakers are capable of having written language in English beyond the most primitive level. The same applies to ASL.

I know several professional deaf individuals who have completed college, medical school, seminaries, and other advanced education programs, and who write perfectly well and intelligible in English. Their skills in written English are well beyond a "primitive" level.

Now, written ASL does look very primitive to the average English reader; however, it makes perfectly good sense in ASL. The thing to remember is that this is not English - it is ASL in written form, which is something totally different.

On the other hand, those who use Signed English can usually make themselves clearly understood in writing.

Signed English is a bastardized, abominable version of signing developed for the deaf by hearing people whose only intent is to make the deaf more "normal." It has absolutely no correlation to signing, is much more difficult to learn than is ASL, and serves absolutely no purpose to a deaf person outside the classroom. Proper education by a person conversant in both English and ASL is much more effective in teaching a deaf person how to write effective in English than is trash such as Signed English.

Which one would benefit a child more, i.e. make him employable at something besides manual labor?

See my comment earlier. Deaf people are employed as doctors, preachers, teachers, and many professions other than manual labor. These individuals have learned how to compensate and overcome the difficulties in living and working in a hearing world, and have succeeded in their chosen fields.

ASL is child abuse.

Bull. Training a child to develop their full potential, to have the ability to communicate with a wide range of others - including other deaf people - is not abuse. Yes, since this is a hearing world, other forms of communication also need to be taught. But the value of learning ASL must not be denied.

To deny the fact that a deaf child is deaf, to deny that child the ability to interact with other deaf people, to deny the fact that a deaf culture exists and the child has a place in that society - now that is abuse.

23 posted on 05/13/2002 11:59:47 AM PDT by serinde
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To: sixtycyclehum
My gut feel is that deaf parents who don't want to have their kids hear, are simply being selfish and don't want their children to excel at anything.

What you are saying with this comment is that deaf children can't excel at anything. Wrong. They are just as capable of excelling in their chosen field as any other child. They may have to work a little harder to overcome the difficulty of being deaf in a hearing world, but they can and do accomplish this, every day.

What I also find particularily appalling (for me) are the cases where there is a good chance of having a deaf child, and the parents go ahead and give birth to a deaf child ...

Would you prefer that the parents abort the child just because he or she may be handicapped? Or that the parents be sterilized to prevent a deaf child being conceived?

IMO, these options are even more appalling than having a disabled child, because they run the risk of using these options for many situations other than when a child may or may not be born deaf. I do not want to live in a society with that attitude towards the disabled.

24 posted on 05/13/2002 12:15:06 PM PDT by serinde
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Comment #25 Removed by Moderator

To: serinde
Just as capable, except where hearing is involved. I can't see a deaf person teaching the violin. *grin* Sorry, couldn’t resist.
26 posted on 05/13/2002 12:19:43 PM PDT by Tao Yin
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Comment #27 Removed by Moderator

To: sixtycyclehum
"A good example of what i'm talking about was the famous Mathematician, Charles Proteus Steinmetz."

I guess we're fortunate that Steinmetz' parents didn't know about the "genetic" condition. (On the other hand, maybe they would have been ignoble and had him anyway.)

By the way, did you know that tantalum was discovered by a deaf chemist?

28 posted on 05/13/2002 12:34:57 PM PDT by OBAFGKM
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To: anniegetyourgun
I've been debating whether or not to teach my daughters sign language. They both have speech problems, and one of them has a severe problem.

Sign language is taught to children that have speech problems. For some reason, it helps them to actually speak when they learn sign.

29 posted on 05/13/2002 12:40:17 PM PDT by luckystarmom
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To: sixtycyclehum
So you want hereditary deaf people simply not to get pregnant? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you don't except deaf people never to get married. So that leaves only one options: birth control. But if you are really so appalled by a pregnant hereditary deaf woman, how could you be satisfied with birth control, seeing as it isn't 100% reliable.

Please tell me that you're being dense on purpose...

30 posted on 05/13/2002 12:40:41 PM PDT by Tao Yin
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To: Tao Yin
Most of the people that I know that having hearing loss have it as a result of some sort of illness. There are lots of anti-biotics that can cause hearing loss in infants. Also, children that have frequent ear infections are at risk for having hearing problems.
31 posted on 05/13/2002 12:42:28 PM PDT by luckystarmom
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To: sixtycyclehum
You really need to read a book titled Everyone Here Spoke Sign Language : Hereditary Deafness on Marthas Vineyard by Nora Ellen Groce.

it is the story of the islanders of Martha's Vineyard, a large island off the coast of Massachusetts. The islanders originally came from the same 2 or 3 boatloads of colonists from England, by way of Boston and Scituate, from a region in Kent which already seems to have had a high incidence of hereditary deafness. Due to the geographic isolation of the island, recessive genes for deafness, which were already prominent in the original Kentish colonists, came increasingly to the fore. As the proportions of islanders who happened to be deaf gradually increased, what was the islanders' answer? Not shunning the deaf. Far from it. Rather, a tradition arose that EVERYONE on the island, deaf or hearing, simply learned sign language as children!

Your assertion that a parent who gives birth to a deaf child should be ashamed of themselves is laughable. And I know, you didn't say that!

35 posted on 05/13/2002 1:10:35 PM PDT by Tao Yin
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To: sixtycyclehum
I thought you were going away...
37 posted on 05/13/2002 1:24:45 PM PDT by Tao Yin
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To: sixtycyclehum
"Then yes, they should be ashamed of themselves. How does this differ from knowingly allowing yourself to get pregnant and giving birth to a kid that has a 100% chance of getting cancer on his/her 3rd birthday. It's absolutely selfish."

I'm curious -- what's your take on X-linked color blindness?

38 posted on 05/13/2002 1:30:50 PM PDT by OBAFGKM
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Comment #39 Removed by Moderator

To: sixtycyclehum
"Color blindness cannot in any way shape or form be construed as being as "bad" (relatively speaking) as deafness. Now if you had said being blind.... then you're getting a little closer (although blindness is a hell of alot worse than deafness).

Many, if not most, deaf people don't regard deafness as a handicap at all, and would refuse any treatment that would give them hearing. Though I would not willingly give up my hearing, I'd be hard-pressed to contradict them -- they perceive the world in a different way than I. Watching once a playground of deaf children was a surreal experience that left me feeling somewhat envious.

Helen Keller is on record as differing with your assessment of blindness vs. deafness.

40 posted on 05/13/2002 1:54:53 PM PDT by OBAFGKM
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