Posted on 05/17/2002 3:36:51 AM PDT by L.N. Smithee
Every time I think that I am through with this thread someone drags me back in.
Why do you turn this women into a criminal, she has not been accused of any crime? Only an idiot would make the distinction that non-criminal activity leads to crime.
I could understand if you reasoned that she might become a politician, cop or stockbroker which are equally sleazy but legal occupations that the church should view with distain, but to conclude that dancing leads to drug dealing is simply asinine.
Every time I think that I am through with this thread someone drags me back in.
Oh, I'm so sorry.
Why do you turn this women into a criminal, she has not been accused of any crime? Only an idiot would make the distinction that non-criminal activity leads to crime.
Perhaps you should read the header of this thread again.
Stripper Mom: I'm Following The Bible
We don't have to claim that her activity "leads to crime".
Just that it is considered a sin according to the Bible.
That makes her claim totally phoney and disingenuous.
I could understand if you reasoned that she might become a politician, cop or stockbroker which are equally sleazy but legal occupations that the church should view with distain, but to conclude that dancing leads to drug dealing is simply asinine.
Yeah, I guess it would be, if anybody actually implied such a thing, but they didn't. I sure didn't.
You obviously missed my point.
B.) You conspicuously did not answer my simple question: why do you believe that we have no right to judge a person's activities if they harm no one else?
She was pretty brazen and open, that does not make her more noble than the guy fooling his wife and trying to keep up appearances so that his kids can be raised to be better than he is.
Nowhere in God's law is a homosexual or fornicator going to inherit the kingdom of God and explicit direction is given for qualifications of leadership within the Church. Every God-fearing church discerns between those who violate those discerning guidelines and those who abide by them.
As a reality check, the recent newsworthiness of pedophilia charges in the priesthood indicate the Church very much believes such activity is grounds for removal and disassociation. (It wouldn't be a scandal if it was considered acceptable.)
No civil law has been violated. A conditional covenant was entered into by the two parties wherein one party violated its conditional terms. The abiding party therefore is no longer bound to the covenant.
The conditional terms were based upon Scriptural guidelines and any attempt by a civil court to rule on the Scriptural merit of that condition now places itself to be judged by the standards of God's justice.
In the counterexample provided where an Islamic God becomes arbiter, a nonexistant god is mute, while in the case of Scripture, if the the court intervenes it will become subject to omniscent judgment over time.
Both 'good' and 'bad' people fall into the domain of evil. If the 'good' is being performed independantly of God's will and directed by human volition, then it is similar to the same original sin of Satan when a third of the angels rebelled and were cast from heaven.
A discerning point is available when the person directs their worship and will towards God, rather than towards any other thing.
If the mother is 'stripping' to gain money, then she is worshipping money over God.
The situation reports that the issue of money was removed from the equation by the church, yet the mother continued to seek that route to provide for her child. Instead of an option where she would avoid compromising her position with Scripture, she has chosen to also attempt to compromise holiness, hence fits the meaning of unholiness.
Does she have volition and an opportunity to reject God? Of course! That doesn't mean holiness must change its character for her, nor if holiness remains immutable does it become less righteous.
The story also reflects how even 'do-gooders' will promote evil and the consequences of their actions do effect the innocent. In this case the mother's arrogance and insistant behavior to worship money and encourage lust for sexual immorality has resulted in a situation where her child fails to receive blessings which were available had the mother remained faithful.
.....Yet.
Would anyone be upset if the mom was a nude model for a serious, Renaissance-style artist? Methinks this is more of a class issue than a moral one.
I want to tell you all a story 'bout
A Harper Valley widowed wife
Who had a teenage daughter
Who attended Harper Valley Junior High
Well her daughter came home one afternoon
And didn't even stop to play
She said, "Mom, I got a note here
From the Harper Valley P.T.A."
The note said, "Mrs. Johnson,
You're wearing your dresses way too high
It's reported you've been drinking
And a-running 'round with men and going wild
And we don't believe you ought to
Be bringing up your little girl this way"
It was signed by the secretary,
Harper Valley P.T.A.
Well, it happened that the P.T.A.
Was gonna meet that very afternoon
They were sure surprised when Mrs. Johnson
Wore her mini-skirt into the room
And as she walked up to the blackboard,
I still recall the words she had to say
She said, "I'd like to address this meeting
Of the Harper Valley P.T.A."
Well, there's Bobby Taylor sittin' there
And seven times he's asked me for a date
Mrs. Taylor sure seems to use
A lot of ice whenever he's away
And Mr. Baker, can you tell us why
Your secretary had to leave this town?
And shouldn't widow Jones be told to keep
Her window shades all pulled completely down?
Well, Mr. Harper couldn't be here 'cause
He stayed too long at Kelly's Bar again
And if you smell Shirley Thompson's breath,
You'll find she's had a little nip of gin
Then you have the nerve to tell me
You think that as a mother I'm not fit
Well, this is just a little Peyton Place
And you're all Harper Valley hypocrites
There is always Scripture, the Bible, the Word of God, which remains true. Rather than seeking comfort from a particlar social dynamic or even some who give claim to religion, Scripture provides a consistent guide to the truth.
After reviewing Scripture, then apply to a particular group of people and discern wherein they fit.
Perhaps your church is different than the past organization and maybe a reason exists for being 'driven away', but I'd place importance upon remaining obedient to Scripture and returning to the body of Christ, i.e. a group of believers somewhere.
Besides the salvational issue will always be between God and yourself and nobody else, although others may tempt you to avoid that relationship without even beginning to venture upon more mature aspects of followon blessings.
Does this mean that by going to work every week, I am worshipping money over God?
We're all to bear our own burden, but that doesn't mean we bear burdens focusing directly or indirectly to promote ourselves.
Here's another example. A devout Christian goes to school, very upright, righteous, friendly, loving, prays to God before his exam that he gets a perfect score. He might be guilty of a heinous sin if he's placing his will before God's. Maybe God's will places the student into a failed grade to place him in a detention hall where simply an example in behavior redirects another person elected by Him to come to the Lord but still within the person's volition.
These are the types of sins most believing Christians lapse into and fail to really glean the most blessings available to man.
After the fall in the Garden of Eden, man was to toil, part of a punishment.
That doesn't mean he's miserable, it simply was a punishment. So yes we all work. Within that work, volitional issues still abound.
It's possible to work while remaining in fellowship with God and its possible to work out of fellowship with God.
One popular false dilemma which tempts man is to place work before God, believing one is simply obeying God by the act of work, but failing to acknowledge Him first. Nature of the punishment and God's immutable character is that we now work where Adam wasn't required to work before the fall, nevertheless, the placement of God first in all things still remains.
In the Old Testament Moses sat as judge and was encouraged to authorize and appoint lower judges to relieve him of the quantity of issues requiring just judgment.
The warning not to judge, is simply an acknowledgement that if one falls into a trend of always judging another person in many things, care needs to be taken because the person judging will also be held accountable in their judgment.
Nothing wrong in a righteous person judging an unrighteous act. When the righteous person is later judged by that same standard, if they are righteous then they aren't guilty and will not face penalty.
God's judgment is perfect and just, unlike man's wherein additional risk might fall on the accused of an unrighteous judgment. But while one is in relationship with God, He may indwell in us and some judgments of man may indeed be perfect while through Him.
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