SERBIA -- FACING UP TO THE PAST

RFE ^ | 17 May 2002 | Patrick Moore

[MarMema]

Thanks. I hadn't run into him/her before. Occasionally we get these KLA supporters here.
I do miss Fusion though. He was so funny.

[ABrit]

800,000 Kosovars driven from their homes.....Every international agency agrees

The KLA distributed phamphlets with Rugova's signiture on it ordering Albanians to leave.....Not according to Rugovas testimony at the Hague.

In addition, people are exactly going to hang around while thousads of planes are overhead dropping cluster bombs. ......All the evidence at the Hague shows that the Kosovar Albanians were driven out because of Serb atrocities.

Finally please note that just in the Llap region, the KLA has admitted to expelling some 220,000 civilians,...Do you have any evidence of this.

In the Bosnian Civil War, the UN investigation of 1992 proved that all Yugoslav forces had withdrawn. Ditto for the Croat succesion. .....The Serbs simply rebadged their army units, and called them the Bosnian Serb Army.

A(lbanian) Brit stick to defending the KLA, it's is a trifle more sensible......I’m not Albanian, any more than you are Serb, and I don’t support the KLA either, and you can’t produce any posts of mine which say I do.

[MarMema]

I bet you watch CNN a lot too. LOL.

[ABrit]

Laugh this off then:

• In addition to the regular stream of murders, tortures, and other forms of physical and mental violence committed, two incidents stand out in the notorious three month functioning of Omarska camp.

  (i) Petrovdan (12 July 1992)

• Petrovdan, or St. Peter’s Day, is an orthodox religious festival that occurs on the 12th of July each year. It is customary to build bonfires on the eve of the holiday in celebration. In 1992, this tradition took on a terrifying aspect in Omarska . A huge fire was made in front of the white house from dump truck tyres. Former detainee Hase Icic described the events that followed:

  At the time, the Serbs, on the eve of Petrovdan, had a real, all-out sort of manifestation rally of civilians and guards. … As night began to fall, they started to take the people out of the first rooms …

  Q. What did you hear after some detainees were taken out?

  A. I remember that, and I’ll remember it for the rest of my life, the cries of women who were outside or in the first room. I’ll never forget their cries and screams . Then I smelt the stench of burning meat. You know when meat begins to burn, it has a specific smell, and this smell of burning flesh was mixed with the smell of the burning rubber from the tyres.²²⁹

• This witness heard from other detainees that their fellow inmates had been thrown onto the fire. This terrible incident was corroborated by Witness AM, who watched the massacre from a window.²³⁰ Ermin Strikovic was able to see people walking round a big fire from the small window in his detention room. He heard screams of pain, although he was not able to see the cause.²³¹ Zuhra Hrnic testified that the following morning, on her way to the cafeteria, she saw a large “FAP” lorry fully loaded with dead bodies parked in the Omarska camp.²³²

  When you pray in your Orthodox Church, remember to pray for the souls of your Churchmates, they will need it.

[MarMema]

Usually I try to remember to pray for those Serbs who were impaled and roasted alive on spits by your KLA buddies.
The same ones who tell the lies you believe so easily.

I almost never forget to pray for the Russians killed in such barbaric ways by the chechen scum who are closely associated with the KLA you love to defend.

But, if it makes you feel better, at every single liturgy we pray for all other Orthodox Christians around the world, even as they are praying for us. And we pray for those tortured and killed by terrorists as well as for the peace of the world.

It could be that a time will come when you will have a better understanding about these things, and for that I will also pray.

[ABrit]

Do you have any evidence to support your allegation that "Serbs who were impaled and roasted alive on spits by your KLA buddies."

[MarMema]

A google search brings up a ton of sites. here is one

I have seen others many times on the web with lovely photos that are more clear than the one accompanying this one.

What is probably hard for you to grasp is that the people fighting the Serbs are accomplished liars. Have you not read about the one journalist who went there and interviewed some kid and was told all this stuff that was horrific about the Serbs? She went back again and found out it was all lies.

Did you not know about the pathologist from Spain who was sent to investigate the mass graves and quit in disgust because there were no mass graves and he felt he had been lied to?

Have you not read the famous story about the picture of the supposed concentration camp that turned out to be bogus? But was still put on the covers of all kinds of major magazines here....and I saw it again just the other day.

I could go on here, the Racak massacre, which was invesigated by some outside source and found to be the product of lies....some men were killed in gunfire and then set up by the KLA to look as if they had been tortured, but the medical examiners or something found out the torture stuff was added after the men were simply shot, and not at close range either.

The world believed all this stuff and we killed a lot of people over a bunch of lies. It still amazes me.

[MarMema]

Oh yeah, I forgot to add that my husband and I sat and watched a news item one night about a burial that went on and on about the poor muslim who had been killed and the events of the ceremony as it was played out on TV.

And of course we knew immediately that it was an Orthodox priest carrying a cross. DUH. You would think they would at least get a clue that muslims don't carry a cross to bury someone.

Just another example of the lies in the media....

You have to be careful. We also watched a story one night about bread lines in Moscow which strongly implied that people were starving. We stayed up to call our friends in Moscow and offered to have their two children come here and stay with us for a few months, to keep down the food bill. They laughed so hard.

A lot of people in this country think slavic peoples are of a lesser race and many of them seem to make it into the media world. We call it Slavopravophobia.
Look at Ziggy Brzezinski. An out and out Russophobe.

The Serbs have suffered almost nonstop demonization by one culture or another for a long time.

mention of the Serbs being roasted alive here too

[MarMema]

Be sure to check out these accompanying photos while you are looking.

[MarMema]

"The Serbs to their eternal honor were the first nation alongside the Greeks to successfully revolt against the Ottoman Turks. When Mr. Hitler wanted help in implementing his exterminationist plans Serbia refused and sacrificed one million of its sons and daughters in a resistance that held down over 250,000 crack Nazi troops. Of all the nations in the Balkans only Serbia and Greece did not have German volunteer units. Before WWII Kosovo was over 50% Serb-Albanian, Croat, and Bosnian Muslim volunteer Nazi terror armies organized by the Abwehr and the SS hunted down and killed thousands of Serbs with axes, picks, and saws. In fact, sporadic violence by the Albanians against Serbs in Kosovo continued until 1951. If anything the Albanians are much like the “White Trash” Down South which after the American Civil War saw their former slaves regaining basic human dignities. A Nazi or a Klansman usually teaches his kids his values. When NATO's German contingent marched into Kosovo in June '99 they were greeted by columns of young Albanians arms outstretched screaming “Heil”. Since the liberation of Kosovo by NATO over 300,000 Serbs, Gypsies, Turks, Slavic Muslims, and pro-Yugoslav Albanians have been cleansed out of Kosovo . Over 30,000 senior citizens forced out of a housing complex in Pristina for UN rental space, 95-year-old Serbian women strangled in her bathtub, and a Serbian priest with his eyes gouged out with a spoon."

from here

[MarMema]

And gee, here's some past from Serbia too! click here

[MarMema]

Lies

more lies

KLA admits lying to journalist

[ABrit]

A google search brings up a ton of sites. ...Sorry, but searches only bring up a few pro Serb propaganda sites, no independant media.

I have seen others many times on the web with lovely photos that are more clear than the one accompanying this one. ....The pictures of the severed head, and the (apparently) badly charred body appear to have originated in Bosnia, no mention of Kosovo. The charred body appears to be just that. There is no evidence of how it happened.

What is probably hard for you to grasp is that the people fighting the Serbs are accomplished liars. ...I think the Serb propaganda is also produced by accomplished liars.

Have you not read about the one journalist who went there and interviewed some kid and was told all this stuff that was horrific about the Serbs? She went back again and found out it was all lies. ....I’m afraid that one passed me by, but it’s hardly specific evidence of anything.

Did you not know about the pathologist from Spain who was sent to investigate the mass graves and quit in disgust because there were no mass graves and he felt he had been lied to? .....No, but I know plenty of mass graves were found, Srebrenica springs to mind.

Have you not read the famous story about the picture of the supposed concentration camp that turned out to be bogus? But was still put on the covers of all kinds of major magazines here....and I saw it again just the other day. .....Yes I have, and the ITN reporter who shot the film testified to its authenticity at the Hague. ITN also successfully sued for libel a pro Serb organisation in the UK. The libel being the one you have repeated, that the film was falsified. Also several Serbs have been found guilty of crimes committed at those camps. Some pleaded guilty

I could go on here, the Racak massacre, which was invesigated by some outside source and found to be the product of lies....some men were killed in gunfire and then set up by the KLA to look as if they had been tortured, but the medical examiners or something found out the torture stuff was added after the men were simply shot, and not at close range either. .....Sorry, but that is still being debated at the Hague, so far no witness has testified that a massacre by the Serbs did not happen.

The world believed all this stuff and we killed a lot of people over a bunch of lies. It still amazes me....I’m afraid you get all your information from pro Serb sources, and that only reinforces your prejudice, as it was designed to.

I’m afraid that lots of crimes have been committed by lots of different groups of people in the Balkans over the years. All sides can point to atrocities committed by others. The catalyst for this latest round of atrocity was Milosevic, and his stirring up of Serb nationalism for his own political purposes. His control of all the sources of information available to the Serb people meant that he could manipulate Serb public opinion, and what we see now is the result. Almost all Serbs in denial. By the way, don’t think you are alone in being manipulated. At the time of the first World War, the story was put about in Briain, that the Germans roasted and ate babies. As far as I know the stories weren’t true, they were designed to promote hatred of an enemy. Similar stories have been promulgated throughout history to demonise an opponent. What you have referrred to on the Serb propaganda sites is just the latest example.

[MarMema]

The BBC is pro-Serb??

The journalist story is above under the link entitled KLA admits lying to journalist - I guess you didn't even check the links I posted.

I am admittedly biased as my children were baptized by a Serbian priest. But it didn't take all of my intelligence to watch CNN and see the stupidity of what they were doing. It's a shame about yours being too low to catch on, but good luck in the future! I have seen more than one freeper post about having been enlightened on this issue. Hopefully you too will experience such enlightenment.

[ABrit]

The BBC, being fairly independent, reports the comments of the Serb pathologist Dr Sasa Dobricanin, unfortunately, all the other witnesses to this event say it was a massacre. Only the Serb appointed by Milosevic says otherwise.

[MarMema]

You probably missed the part about the pathologist having international monitors present.

[MarMema]

I guess the French and Germans are also pro-Serb and to be discounted?

[MarMema]

in case you don't check the link again -

"French newspaper and television reports today feature evidence apparently ignored by U.S. media, suggesting that the "Racak massacre" so vigorously denounced by the U.S.-imposed head of the OSCE (Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe) "verifiers" mission to Kosovo, William Walker, was a setup.

This coincides with reports in the German press indicating strong irritation with Walker among other OSCE members. Meanwhile, the ineffable State Department spokesman James Rubin appeared tonight on CNN for short glimpses between Clinton impeachment dronings, plodding forward amid questions from journalists even more gung-ho for NATO bombings than he and his bride Christiane Amanpour, whose love story apparently owes so much to the common anti-Serb cause. It seems the U.S. is clueless as to the doubts being cast elsewhere on the "massacre" story, and the only questions well-paid U.S. journalists could conjure up were variations on the theme, "why isn’t cowardly NATO already bombing the Serbs?"

[ABrit]

No, he said the international monitors WOULD be present at the autopsy. He declared that it wasn't a massacre before he'd even had the autopsy. there is nothing in the report to say what the international monitors thought, or said.

[MarMema]

germans, finns, belorussians, who must be spewing serbian propoganda too

"The Berliner Zeitung has now been able to access copies of the autopsy documents. Of all these reports, none contain any evidence of an execution scenario. The Finnish forensic experts and their Yugoslav and Belorussian colleagues found traces that point to a gunshot fired "relatively close" on only one of the victims. In the other cases, the findings were negative. "