Putin Refuses to Stop Supplying Iran With Nuclear Reactor Components At Summit

Global Security.org and DebkaFile with World Net Daily ^ | Monday, May 27 2002 (U.S. Memorial Day) Greenwich Mean Time | IKONOS Space Imaging Satellite

[A. Pole]

OOOHHHH, I like it, what do you all think?

Even easier. Let the anti-Russian Jackson-Vanik sanctions be removed. They were put in place in 1974 to pressure Soviet Union to let Jews emigrate. For some strange reasons Congress insists on preserving them to target Russia. I am not speaking about most favoured status like the one granted to China. Just a simple removal of those Cold War sanctions. Until they are in place Russia will be forced to look for other trade partners.

[Light Speed]

Its pretty hard to hide technology in this day and age...Back in the 70's...Nixon and Kissinger knew about Dimona in Israel and warhead production.
The Israeli's built false walls and set up labs for inspection..while warheads were assembled in lower levels.
Inspectors smelled a fish..but Tricky Dicky and Gravel tone held the line for Israel.
I'm sure Iranian project has moles...Israel and U.S. are obtaining intel on the program.
The big concern here is if "Miniturization" of warheads has been given to Iran by the Russians...if so..this would pose a serious threat, as Iran could adopt them to their missile program which is a viable platform.

Although unconfirmed..Intel sites revealed a covert op by Israel or by Israel and the U.S. in March this year ..where the deep missile production/fuel production facility in Homs,Syria was sabotaged..destroying the missile production line and the vx nerve agent storage.
Syria reacted by sending several divisions of troops into south Lebanon..but North Korea,who provides the missile technology and technologists[some were killed during the op]..suddenly returned to the negotiating table with the Bush admin.

[codebreaker]

I thought that was us... the chemical weapons 'accident' in Syria!

[Light Speed]

The comical side to all this was the Beruit summit...The young overconfident leader of Syria had not set foot in Lebanon..under pressure to make a image show,Damascus forgave Lebanon several million in debt for electrical.
Bashar Assad also made political conscessions to some clans in Lebanon[which really are the political force there].
Then Assad found himself locked out of the negotiations which the Saudi's had manuvered during the Beruit summit.
Bashar returned to Damscus embarrased..politically isolated..out several millions of dollars..and then to discover his deep missile production facility destroyed while he was away.
I'm sure Bashar was suckin on a houka pipe after that weekend!

[bat-boy]

OOOHHHH, I like it, what do you all think?

I don't like it. Look at what we allow the Sauds to get away with today, all in the name of oil, and they're nothing but a piss-ant third world country. Can you imagine what the Russians will do once they have us dependent upon them?

[whadizit]

Exactly!! When he learns that his inconsistent attitudes towards different terrorist states is what the problem is, maybe we will all be better. Notice how Iran, Iraq, Syria, get all the attention while he NEVER brings up China and the terrorist states they help support. When GW starts taking on the bigger boyz as well as the 3rd world, perhaps we will give him credibility!

[Lion's Cub]

Thanks for sharing the story. I happen to believe you, but even if you were making it up, I really enjoyed the ending :)

[Lion's Cub]

Notice how Iran, Iraq, Syria, get all the attention while he NEVER brings up China and the terrorist states they help support

What makes you think these states aren't receiving a bit of Chinese help? Who is engaged in 6 months of wargames right now waiting for us to make a misstep that has us too tied up with the Islamics to intervene if they make a grab for the Straits?

[DarkWaters]

Won't work. For the last 12 years we have been subsidizing Russia with money and what did we get for our troubles? A huge default that sent ripples through the markets. Most of the money 'stolen' by the Red Mafia helped them to entrench themselves into the U.S., Israel, Europe, and Central/South America. What ever money that wasn't stolen found its way into weapons programs and yet we can't get access to such facilities. Nuclear, Chemical, and Biological weapons that were slated for destruction(aside from a few legitimate weapons destruction programs) under treaty, never came to be because they didn't have enough money even though we gave them the money to do it! The list goes on and on. What a Ponzi scheme.

[Light Speed]

Have found this site to be very usefull...Daniel Pipes is on the Editorial board
A better read than Debka..and for those who are not Janes or Statfor members..a good place to get some foundation that makes sense.
Middle East Intelligence Bulletin

[Aric2000]

Kinda like SSI!!! But I won't go there in this thread.... ;)

[Southack]

Israeli Astronaut flying On May 31 Shuttle Launch

Anyone want to take a guess at what our Mossad guy will be doing over Iran at the end of this month??

[Light Speed]

Popped onto your web page..
Is Musharref another Shah of Iran..a helicopter ride..and then Monaco and those Swiss accounts.
Every time I see this guy I think.."Heres a guy who's gonna bolt when the Shi-ite hits the fan". How long can he grease the palms of the ISI and stay in power?
Or have we arrived at such a time..as when the U.N. makes one "Untouchable"...I'm sure India think he's an Untouchable..and would like to see him sitting on a ash heap somewhere.

[A. Pole]

Won't work. For the last 12 years we have been subsidizing Russia with money and what did we get for our troubles?

Give the number please. I think you are involved in a collective phantasy. Russia did not get much from America. Even the opposite, USA applies punitive anti-Soviet Jackson-Vanik trade sactions from 1974 against present Russia.

A huge default that sent ripples through the markets.

Russia agreed to assume the responsibilty of the Soviet debt while forgiving at the same time large part of loans to the Third World countries.

Most of the money 'stolen' by the Red Mafia helped them to entrench themselves into the U.S., Israel, Europe, and Central/South America.

Stolen money (which was not the Soviet era loans) did benefit Russia or Russians.

[DarkWaters]

Give the number please. I think you are involved in a collective phantasy. Russia did not get much from America

This simply not so. 5-7 billion U.S. aid dollars were funneled by the Red Mafia through one bank in New York alone. At the time it created a huge uproar for the Clinton Administration who was left trying to diffuse the situation. Read the book "Red Mafiya" by Robert I. Friedman which goes into great detail in money laundering activities. It is also well known in the FBI that the Red Mafia has penetrated nearly every bank in Russia. Some banks are dummy banks simply designed to move laundered money. On several occasions aid money given by the U.S. has found its way to these dummy banks. However, in most of the cases the money was simply siphoned off from the legitimate banks. Given that there have been numerous arrests in Russia for bank fraud and money laundering, the ones in the middle get squeezed but never the real perpetrators of the crime. Also with the coze relationship between the military and the Mafia, it is no surprise that only the weak ones get arrest and that doesn't even guarantee jail time.

In the past 8 years there has been 20 to 40 billion U.S. dollars given to prop up the Russian economy. The idea behind it was so Russia didn't have to devalue their currency which would send painful ripples through the financial system. However, the Russians were animate about doing it anyways. What could Congress or the President do? Absolutely nothing except run damage control.

10 -15 billion dollars was given to dismantle parts of their weapons programs. Yet virtually nothing has happened to them. In fact the Nuclear and Biological programs have grown since then. Then there was good old Boris, who would make slight threats that he couldn't guarantee the safety of their nukes unless we gave more money(billion dollar package deals usually from the Pentagon’s budget). Then there is the occasional bill that has slip through congress giving money and aid for one program or another whether to attract foreign business or to subsidize their farming production in 1996. All of this money given are not in loans. It is a free hand out with no strings attached. Congress may say otherwise, but these bunch of wimps in Congress will never hold them to anything and neither will this current president.

A question I have for you is this: what would you consider not a whole lot of money? Billions even here can get people very far if utilized properly. In Russia with the currency exchange being what it is, just a billion or two would make you an emperor so to speak. I sympathize with the Russian peoples' plight, but they are not in control of their own county. The Mafia and the Army pull the strings here. Anyone wishing to do business here has to play by their rules which entails paying off local and regional mob bosses. Even then there is no guarantee that you will be left alone. Take for example a company in Cleveland, OH named Sawyer Research Products. They invested several million dollars into a quartz-growing workshop for high tech electronics, but were forced out by corrupt officials in the province of Vladimir. This is all to common for foreign businesses and it really is a shame. Russia has so much growth potentially, yet the corruption has hindered it since the break up.

Even the opposite, USA applies punitive anti-Soviet Jackson-Vanik trade sactions from 1974 against present Russia.

True, but under the Clinton administration most of the time these sanctions were overlooked. It was simply as if they weren't their except for selective enforcement to keep the old guard in the government quiet. Secondly, it is doubtful it will get much enforcement from the current president given how badly we need Russia. Why throw salt into a wound?

Stolen money (which was not the Soviet era loans) did benefit Russia or Russians

At what price to their future? The mob has a very caustic effect on society over time. And at what price to our society? They have ran scam operations from petty theft to multibillion dollar jobs(drugs mainly). As one Russian mobster(Monyia I think) said: "there is no job to small for us". This is why they are so successful. Another mobster has been quoted as saying: "we will bleed your country(U.S.) until nothing is left to steal." They have fraudulently bill 10's of millions of dollars from Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security fund a year in the New York City alone. They have set up doctors that don't exist. Committed elaborate insurance scams. Penetrated the VA Hospital system along with many of the major brokerage houses. Run money threw the U.S. Banking system with little worry of being caught. Run sophisticated counterfeiting rings. The list goes on and on. Yet this get little attention from Congress or the Justice department. The FBI hinders its Russian Mafia division from doing fruitful investigation. It is quite clear that the corruption in Russia has come here and has had a great deal of aid from us in its expansion during the 1990's.

[A. Pole]

Give the number please. I think you are involved in a collective phantasy. Russia did not get much from America

This simply not so. 5-7 billion U.S. aid dollars were funneled by the Red Mafia through one bank in New York alone.

Wait a minute! "Funneled"? Are you saying that 5-7 billion U.S. aid dollars were funneled by the "Red Mafia" through one bank in New York alone and that American governement did not know about? Where those money cash grants or will they add to the debts of Russian people? How did they get into the hands of this "Russian" mafia? Who delivered this money from American tax payers in the first place? Is the criminal prosectution going on? Sources, please!

Given that there have been numerous arrests in Russia for bank fraud and money laundering, the ones in the middle get squeezed but never the real perpetrators of the crime.

But those US tax payer money had to be given to the "Russian" mafia by the US official in the first place, don't you think so? Is there a criminal prosecution in USA? And who is going to pick up the tab? Russian people or American people? Sources and amounts, please!

In the past 8 years there has been 20 to 40 billion U.S. dollars given to prop up the Russian economy.

What part of the US budget it was? Please itemise those grants and provide the sources.

[A. Pole]

Stolen money (which was not the Soviet era loans) did benefit Russia or Russians

At what price to their future? The mob has a very caustic effect on society over time. And at what price to our society?

Sorry, it was a typo. I meant "Stolen money (which was not the Soviet era loans) did NOT benefit Russia or Russians". This money left Russia and benefited non Russian people outside of Russia.

Final responsibilty rests with those people who controlled the release of this money. Again, who will pick the tab? Russian people or American people?

[Octavius]

Come on! If Bush is so concerned about Iran maybe he should stop their citrizens from freely moving about our country, entering out graduate schools..etc..
Of course this would take real political courage.

[A. Pole]

Come on! If Bush is so concerned about Iran maybe he should stop their citrizens from freely moving about our country, entering out graduate schools..etc.. Of course this would take real political courage.

NONE out of the 911 hijackers were from Iran (or from Iraq for that matter). They were from the "allied, friendly" countries.

BTW, the revealing facts is that most of Saudi students (at least in Arabia) study Islamic studies while Iraqi and Iranian students study more useful secular subjects.