Without an Attorney, Boy Falters Before Judge

St. Petersburg Times ^ | 5/28/02 | Kathryn Wexler

[xsmommy]

i am, and i am absolutely flabbergasted at the responses on this thread that think that justice is predicated on a DRESS CODE. heck, even if your knowledge of the law goes no further than seeing miranda rights read to criminals on tv, one would know that, in a criminal proceeding, everyone is entitled to a lawyer, and if they can't afford to pay, one will be appointed them. even if the punk was sitting there in a LOINCLOTH, he is entitled to representation at every step of the proceeding, not just the guilt phase, but ALSO sentencing. There is no excuse for the judge's failure to make sure that he had one. LET ALONE the kid sitting there saying that he didn't know what was going on. This is mindboggling. It doesn't matter what kind of scum the defendant is, justice doesn't depend on that either.

[xsmommy]

But I'm amazed that you'd defend this judge simply because you assume he's a Republican. In fact, simply because he was appointed by Jeb doesn't mean he's a Republican--but the one thing I expect from the judiciary is non-partisanship when they're on the bench. I also expect a knowledge of the fundamentals of the law. This judge failed

as someone who is fiercely partisan, i agree totally. It doesn't matter if the Jeb-appointed judge is a republican, this is just egregious judicial behavior.

[Labyrinthos]

You can't dress trashy and expect due process and Constitutional rights. Constitutional rights come with good grooming and fine clothing!

I bet you believe that the Constitution ought to be strickly construed in accordance with its written word and the intent of its drafters, rather than the whim of liberal judges who legislate from the bench... BTW, where exactly does the Constitution specify that Due Process is only available to criminal defendants who have "good grooming and fine clothing"?

[Catspaw]

No, I'm not a lawyer. I'm a paralegal working for three attorneys who do both public defender work and private criminal law--when they were starting out, more PD work than private pay; now it's the reverse--covering everything from muni tickets to misdemeanors to felonies, juvies and adults. I've been a paralegal for about (quickly doing some subtraction) for the last 18 years I've been in court for a couple thousand court hearings over those years.

[Catspaw]

It was obviously a ploy by his previous lawyer and his parent to attempt to avoid the penalty phase of the proceedings.Justice will only be denied in THIS case if the convicted car thief gets furthor court time.

And you know this because.....?

[7thson]

You know, some of you people really get me upset. Yeah, I know that when you appear before someone in authority you have to look your best. But the Constitution was not written for those who appear in GQ. It is for all US citizens. If this guy is a citizen (it appears that he is) and he did not understand the legal language, and asked for an attorney, the judge should have stopped and appointed one for him. Read the article again - even other attorneys thought this was strange. And one of the things an attorney does is instruct ignorant people on how to dress. But you people who profess to believe in our Constitution would just throw this guy to the wolves. Don't you understand that part of our duty is to help the weak and defenseless. He is a teen but in a court he is weak. Sometimes I wonder about you people who just want justice for the well-heeled.

[Dasaji]

With the information offered in the article, I really don't think a conclusion can be drawn either way. There appear to be obvious omissions of statements and rearranging of statements to make "someone" appear to be the Bad Guy. Re-read the article - leaps of fuzzy logic everywhere.

I find it quite interesting that Mom didn't have the foresight to retain a PD but sure knew she should bring her own tape recorder. I also wonder "what" she was telling her darling son in Spanish. "Keep acting stupid, honey - we gonna trash this system good so you (Mommy) won't have to pay nuthin'."

The attorneys commenting about this in the article were related the "facts" by the reporter, and hence, could have been led into the conclusions they made. Nothing mentioned that they actually heard Mom's smuggled tape recording.

There's still more to play out on this.

[hobbes1]

Look, as you are well aware, I am only slightly to the right, of Genghis Khan politically, but Jeb should undo his mistake, and rip this Ahole from the bench, and publicly.

Besides it'll play great in the Hispanic Press, which makes it a killer Political Move as well.

As to the TShirt. I suppose some people are still unaware why Justice wears that Blindfold.......

[Publius6961]

"I have received a bribe of 3000 pounds from the counsel for the plaintiff, and a bribe of 5000 pounds from the counsel for the respondent, and so I will now return 2000 pounds to the counsel for the plaintiff and hear the case on it's merits."

Don't you just hate it when that happens?
It's a great line, though.

[DETAILER]

Any time you show up in front of a judge in a t-shirt, you might as well stencil 'skrew-me your honor' on your forehead. If you can't show him the courtesy and respect of wearing a shirt, why should he owe you the time of day? If you don't care, neither will he.

I was amazed by that too - here in Louisiana he'd have never been allowed in the court room dressed like that.

[Catspaw]

The attorneys commenting about this in the article were related the "facts" by the reporter, and hence, could have been led into the conclusions they made. Nothing mentioned that they actually heard Mom's smuggled tape recording.

Um, how do you know Mom taped the hearing? In some states, court hearings and trials are taped by the court reporter, some in addition to the print/typed transcript, in others instead of the printed/typed transcript. If this court hearing was taped by the court reporter, all Mom had to do was purchase a copy of the tape from the court reporter and provide it to the reporter.

[Pilsner]

A GOOD judge knows that it is at least useless and possibly counter productive to hammer the perp in a manner that leaves reversible error in the record. At best he gets a new trial from the Court of Appeals, at worst he gets an acquittal. You give the guy his court appointed lawyer, order him to pay the same restitution to the victim, and then on top of that order him to pay restitution to the County/State for his court appointed lawyer. It costs him more money in the long run and saves the prosecution the trouble of retrying the case two years down the road.

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

This was a restitution hearing. A plea of guilty had already been entered. Was this done under advice of counsel? Did he, in fact, waive his right to an attorney? If so, he got what he deserved.

By his own admission he was GUILTY. Too late to whine about sentencing.

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

"I'm like, dang. The way they speak and the way they put their words, I don't understand

"Awww... our public edukayshin system at work..."

Bullcookies. This is clearly someone that has not fully availed himself of the benefits of a public education. His reason for being in court is fairly good evidence of this.

[FITZ]

I know of a white kid who at 16 was found in possession of a 6-pack of beer, he also did not get a lawyer, went to court, pleaded guilty (he was taught honesty is the best policy) and got put in jail for one week. I bet cases where a kid speaks the language of this country and is fair-skinned aren't politically correct enough to make the news.

[TankerKC]

...why should he owe you the time of day?

THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION

Once again, Mortin steps on his own crank.

[Catspaw]

This was a restitution hearing. A plea of guilty had already been entered. Was this done under advice of counsel? Did he, in fact, waive his right to an attorney? If so, he got what he deserved.

If you read the story, you'll see that the judge waived his right to an attorney for him, without a hearing, without a knowing waiver of counsel:

"You don't have a lawyer, Mr. Elias," Nielsen said. "So you're going to represent yourself in this matter."