Posted on 05/30/2002 5:22:00 PM PDT by KLT
Bump.
I suspect that there are lot more than most think, but that they keep their heads down to avoid attracting the unpleasant attention of the extremists -- which I think are at the very least a rather large and exceedingly vicious minority. Just look at the public examples --warnings-- they make of the "collaborators" in the Palestinian areas.
And I suspect that you are a good and decent person who, because he harbors no ill will towards others, is unable to see the ill will that others have.
but that they keep their heads down to avoid attracting the unpleasant attention of the extremists -- which I think are at the very least a rather large and exceedingly vicious minority. Just look at the public examples --warnings-- they make of the "collaborators" in the Palestinian areas.
You have a point. However, I suspect the numbers who are keeping their heads down is rather small. Don't forget. There have been two generations of "refugees" raised to hate Jews. The teaching of hatred towards Jews has been documented in their media, educational, and religious systems more than enough times. It is entrenched and I suspect has been absorbed by the overwhelming number of "Palestinians".
I have to observe my Sabbath so this will be my last post of the day. Have a good one.
I have to observe my Sabbath so this will be my last post of the day. Have a good one.
(For when you return...)
Ah. If we are discussing the Palestinians in particular, then you'll not get argument from me. If we are discussing Muslims in regions close to Israel, where the propaganda machine has been strongest, you'll still not get much argument. Even in Egypt I have a colleague who gets a bit "strong" in e-mails mentioning Israel (but I have another who doesn't discuss the issue). Further away I'm not so sure...
I am reminded of the remark (some months ago, venue forgotten) of an American Muslim woman who had come to avoid the (a certain?) mosque because of "what went on there" (propaganda) or something to that effect. Here, at least, was one who doesn't like the takeover by the extremists and is free enough to say so. I've met others locally (Redmond -- Microsoft seems to have a number of Muslims in high positions) who would say much the same. Under a regime such as the Taliban, or the Palestinian Authority, I doubt they'd feel so free to speak their mind.
I've also met a couple of the local area CAIR leaders who talk the talk, when you ask, but somehow... I just am not quite able to implicitly believe them.
Well, I can only judge by what I've seen. For example, in the aftermath of both World Trade Center bombings (1993 and 2001), you had a large number of Muslims living in this country who denounced the bombings. Muslim leaders got into the media and claimed that these acts were against Islam. However, when an Arab shot up a van full of Jewish kids on the Brooklyn Bridge, not one Arab (never mind Arab leader) got up to publicly denounce the murder of one child, the maiming of another, and the terrorization of the rest. Moreover, I haven't seen any UNEQUIVICAL statements from any of them against the terror in Israel. Some may have gotten up and said something to the effect like "terror is wrong, but look at what the Israelis are doing". That doesn't cut it in my book.
I agree thoroughly; the Muslims have been quiet about the atrocities committed in the name of Islam -- so quiet, that one has to wonder. Either they all think this is a good thing (and our interpretation of their silence has not gone unsaid -- mine has been one of several published letters to the editor on this topic)... or something else is at play.
The reason I think it's the "something else" comes from looking beyond the immediate situation.
An example I saw yesterday was this FR posting, Islamic Fundamentalism in Kashmir. In what is a stark contrast to what is going on there today, it begins: "The Muslim and Hindu peoples of Kashmir have lived in relative harmony and friendliness since the 13th century when Islam first became the majority religion in Kashmir." This reflects many situations, with different faiths among the Muslims, in numerous places.
Of course, it's never been fully stable because, as the article says: "Periodically however, there have been rulers and leaders who have had a narrow view of Islam..." and one could easily replace "Islam" with various forms of Christianity to invoke many Western infelicitous examples. The Mormons being driven out of the Midwest is one such "local" case.
My point is, I don't believe that this murderous intolerance is inherent in being Muslim. There are too many situations where it has been otherwise. And though I have met few (a very small sample size), at least most of the Muslims I have met are not murderously intolerant.
Other faiths that have had their times of intolerance were, at the time, led by those who were using divisive intolerance as a means to power. But that is not to say that Islam today, as akways since its inception, is not subject to "leaders who have had a narrow view of Islam" -- as it clearly is today. And it is in times like that that nobody dares speak out, or oppose the leaders, for fear of their lives.
I don't know that there's much more to say. As an operative premise for the current time, yours is workable. But I think a blanket portrayal is inaccurate.
Shalom.
Our experiences shape our perception. While I understand your position, my experiences and observations lead me to a different conclusion.
I don't know that there's much more to say. As an operative premise for the current time, yours is workable. But I think a blanket portrayal is inaccurate.
I understand.
Shalom.
To you as well....
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