A wise end to social promotion [by a new, black columnist re: Jeb ends social promotion]

The Orlando Sentinel ^ | May 25, 2002 | David Porter

[No Truce With Kings]

The comparison made me wince because I disagree with many of the Supreme Court justice's ultraconservative opinions.

A conservative this guy ain't. (I would enjoy being compared to Thomas -- it would be an honor.) However, it is refreshing to see that even the libs are begining to admit the system is broken and opting for non-PC solutions.

[Rebel-without-a-pause]

Can I put my 2 cents in concerning a neighbor state - Georgia? According to what I have been told our Gov. Barnes (a liberal DemocRAT) has ended social promotion, but it will not occur until 2005 and will apply to third graders and above if they don't meet the state testing requirements.

I understatnd also that the teachers in Georgia don't like the Gov. They are worried about the new testing requirements, but I'm sure they aren't alone in that regard. The teachers in Georgia enjoy one of the highest saleries in the southeast.

With the No Child Left Behind legislation that Pres. Bush signed into law I don't think removing students that can't keep up will be an option. They will probably be put into alternative schooling or receive tutoring or both. Just thought you might like to hear how other states are handling this.

[summer]

opting for non-PC solutions.

I think that's what is happening in FL. BTW, as you may know, Gov. Bush is very popular in FL; and, in that recent St. Pete/Miami poll, voters were asked if they perceived Gov. Bush as "too conservative" -- the majority said "no." I think what is happening is that the majority is moving right. Because Gov. Bush is not becoming more "pc." Thanks for your post. :)

[summer]

Can I put my 2 cents in concerning a neighbor state - Georgia?

Yes! Very interesting post, Rebel. Thanks! Amelia, FYI. :)

[SiliconValleyGuy]

"Becoming more pc" never gains a conservative any popularilty. The liberals will never accept him as one of their own, and the intelligent conservatives rebel and jump ship. It's always a bad move.

[summer]

I agree - and, Gov. Bush has never done that. And, I must say, that is why I think much of the talk about the recent Everglades drilling agreement is unfair. Because those who know Gpv. Bush's 1998 campaign promises, as well as his on-going environmental record, KNOW he did not "need" to do that for his re-election. He already has done a lot in the environmental arena. Yes, it will probably help him, but did he "need" to do it, as some, like the NYT alleges? Not at all.

[Amelia]

I understatnd also that the teachers in Georgia don't like the Gov. They are worried about the new testing requirements, but I'm sure they aren't alone in that regard. The teachers in Georgia enjoy one of the highest saleries in the southeast.

I'm a Georgia teacher, and I don't much care for King Roy....Some of it is the WAY he's doing things, and part is that he asked everyone except teachers what was needed to improve schools.

Why are we waiting until 2005 to end social promotion? How many more children will be socially promoted in the next 3 years because administrators want to go ahead & get them out of their school and on to the next one? I know of more than one school where the administrators forbid teachers to fail students - no matter how poorly the student is doing.

King Roy's education improvement program also mandates smaller class sizes - but didn't provide for building more classrooms to hold the extra classes. And, many parapro positions were eliminated. According to my elementary school teacher friends, that means that a classroom which used to hold a class of 20 students, a teacher, and a parapro, will now hold TWO classes of 15 students each and two teachers - at least until more classrooms can be built. The state is also struggling to find enough teachers to fill all those extra slots.

By the way, Georgia teachers are among the best paid in the Southeast because of the efforts of FORMER governor, now Senator, Zell Miller.

[summer]

Amelia, Thank you for taking the time to comment on this thread.

As you and I have discussed before, the following criticism: he [GA's Dem Gov Barnes] asked everyone except teachers what was needed to improve schools.

is where I think many political leaders make a big mistake -- except Gov. Bush. Unlike others, Gov. Bush has kept his ear to the ground and really listened to teachers! Much to his credit, IMO.

[Amelia]

summer, I think some politicians (like some citizens) assume that teachers are to blame for the problems in the schools. Some teachers share some of the blame, but as we know, many others are trying very hard, but are stymied by administrators, politicians, and the culture at large.

[summer]

I agree.

[katherineisgreat]

good stuff summer.

GO JEB!

[summer]

bttt

[skr]

Very interesting. I'm definitely not for undeserved promotion. It's too bad that it could be reinstated.

[valkyrieanne]

The student I mentioned, BTW, was tested for special ed, but did not "meet the standards" of special ed.

It probably depends upon the district, but I imagine there's a lot of "triaging" going on in special ed. Public schools have to educate some *severely* disabled kids - I read once that one noncommunicative autistic child's education can run to over $100,000 a year, especially if they have the newer approaches that involve *constant* attention from teacher aides. These methods *work* and in some districts (like St. Louis County) judges have mandated them if the parents want them, but they are phenomenally expensive.

Because of the costs of educating children with difficult handicaps, kids who are behind a few years in reading may very well fall through the cracks, especially if their parents don't take them to one of the private tutoring services on their own, or have the money to pay for their own private learning disabilities evaluations (I have heard they run $3,000 to $4,000 for the full workup, which can take several days & involves neurological as well as educational assessments.)

[summer]

Thanks for your post here, skr.

[summer]

Because of the costs of educating children with difficult handicaps, kids who are behind a few years in reading may very well fall through the cracks,

You're right in that a school district often has to spend a lot of money on a severely disabled student. As to the above point about kids falling through the cracks, that is why I do give Gov. Bush credit for his recent emphasis on reading.

[summer]

FYI, re Gov. Bush's reading program -- Just Read, FL!

[Truth Addict]

I believe after 8th grade, a student should be allowed to take a legal leave of absence from school. If a student wants to remain in school and learn, fine, but if not, do other students and teachers who want to be there a big favor, and get out and get a minimum wage job and work. If a student decides to return to school, that's fine with me, too

Your proposal is a good one that would help immensely to improve the classroom atmosphere. Having these disruptive, and sometimes dangerous, kids in classrooms makes life difficult and dangerous of both their classmates as well as the teacher. I would also recommend that the writer' proposal, which would eliminate compulsory attendance would go even further toward improving the situation.

Under either proposal, or variation thereof, child labor laws would have to be modified or eliminated to accommodate these younger people who would need to find employment.

Thanks for posting this article, summer; it's a great read and I hope to see more from this new reporter.

[summer]

Thanks, TA. BTW, I had hoped caltrop might respond to your lawsuit question, and maybe he will, but I just didn't want to get into it.

[summer]

Oops, I am getting mixed up here on threads - I meant my lawsuit comment for the nursing thread, and I apologize for mistakenly writing it on this thread! :)