Israel attacked the USS LIBERTY - (June 8, 1967)

Sun Herald ^ | June 6, 2002

[anka]

fools being those with different opinions than yours i'm sure... so, the question still stands, have i blasphemed? or maybe you lack 'the balls', as you so eloquently put it, to answer... care to give it a whirl, smiley?

[Diogenes of Sinope]

"I particulary found the second one about 'claiming for oneself the attributes and rights of God' interesting. how's that whirl?"

I find the claim of being the exclusive "Chosen" people of God and having special rights derived therefrom to meet this definition, dont you.

[albee]

"... This is old, it is done, it has been handled. GET OVER IT!!!"

The Holocaust is old, it is done, it has been handled. When are You going to get over it?

[RCW2001]

MSNBC is running a very appropriate piece on the "attack upon the USS LIBERTY" this evening. Just saw it right before the hour...will most likely reappear during the 10-11pm timeslot.

[anka]

i don't know, diogenes. i think that all ORGANIZED religious groups/churches/mosques, etc... etc... are blasphemous to a certain extent. allow me to explain my position. i think that all of us are children of god, whatever name you may know god by. i think that our relationship(s) with god are of the most personal nature. i believe that when all is said and done, we are not required to answer to Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Islam or the myriad of other religions that all have some parts of the truth intertwined within their teachings, but rather we, as individuals, must answer to god alone. i think that christianity, as an organized religion, failed christ and his teachings by becoming one of the things that christ spoke against. i think that when any religion becomes a vehicle for the acquisition of power it has blasphemed horribly. i believe that when the teachings of peace and love for ALL humankind that the prophets taught us are used as a shroud for hatred against those that don't agree with the tenents of our 'faith' that we are blaspheming. so, is judaism blaspheming by purporting to be THE CHOSEN faith? i'd say yes. but i'd also say that you shouldn't worry about what another group or individual believes, or whether you percieve them to be blaspheming or not. i'm sure someone, somewhere will view what i said as blasphemous. i can't say that i care. i'll answer to god for myself. (my apologies for not making any sense: i hardly ever do make sense and i make even less sense when sleep calls. g'night)

[VaBthang4]

What are you, stalking me now?

Let it go "obsessiveuptight analguy".

[LarryLied]

When are You going to get over it?

It will stop when it is no longer lucrative. When taxpayers stop funding Holocaust museums all over the nation. When corporations just say no the next time a lawsuit for reparations is threatened. But that day is a while off. Last week Congress passed a law making any Holocaust related payment income tax free until the year 2012. The law applies to not just survivors but to descendant and estates. I bet more than a few WWII Vets and their families would be steamed if they heard about this. Friend of mine lost his lower leg in the Battle of the Bulge. Every 5 years or so he has to have a new operation. He saves up for private surgery instead of going to the VA because of the substandard treatment he has received there.

[anka]

oh, i see. someone asks you a simple question that you don't want to answer and you go way off on some tangent and suggest that they may be STALKING you. too funny. i can see why you grin so much. and does the 'analguy' bit have something to do with a preference of yours? (not really interested in THAT answer).

[Aric2000]

I'm way over it, learn from the past so that it will not be repeated, but don't dwell on it to such a point that it destroys any relationship you might have with a German.

I'm over it, what's your problem?

[albee]

"I'm over it, what's your problem?"

As a taxpayer, I don't like to see my hard earned tax dollars (to the tune of over $100 billion since the Liberty slaughter) go to a country that deliberately killed 23 innocent American sailors and crippled dozens more.

Let me borrow a phrase..."Never forgive, never forget." Let me know if you have a problem with that.

[Aric2000]

Again, Time for you to get over it.

read my above posts, I am not going to repeat myself for someone that doesn't get it.

[Diogenes of Sinope]

Don't expect this to happen too soon. Israel is completely incapable of self-sufficiency. In the absence of international aid, charitable contributions and guilt offerings Israel would wither and die. To perpetuate this it needs the memory of the Holocaust, the threat of the Muslims and tenuos linkage to Old Testament prophecy. (not to mention extensive money laundering and software piracy activities)

[LarryLied]

A grim picture. The criminals from the former USSR using Israel as a sanctuary are a danger to everyone. If nothing else, our aid should be tied to them cleaning that up. With Rahm Emmanuel posed to win a seat in Congress this fall, the situation will no doubt become worse.

[VaBthang4]

You'll have to forgive me but I suffer from A.O.C.L.O.A.D.D.

A.TTENTION to O.BSESSIVE C.OMPULSIVE L.OSERS of O.NLINE A.RGUEMENTS D.EFICIT D.ISORDER

It strikes millions in the prime of their youth...

Pray for me.

[anka]

i have to give it to you smiley. your humor is contagious. i suddenly find myself sporting one of your stupid grins. ;) been fun bro. peace.

[zapiks44]

MYTH

"During the 1967 War, Israel deliberately attacked the USS Liberty."

FACT

The Israeli attack on the USS Liberty was a grievous error, largely attributable to the fact that it occurred in the midst of the confusion of a full-scale war in 1967. Ten official United States investigations and three official Israeli inquiries have all conclusively established the attack was a tragic mistake.

On June 8, 1967, the fourth day of the Six-Day War, the Israeli high command received reports that Israeli troops in El Arish were being fired upon from the sea, presumably by an Egyptian vessel, as they had a day before. The United States had announced that it had no Naval forces within hundreds of miles of the battle front on the floor of the United Nations a few days earlier; however, the USS Liberty, an American intelligence ship assigned to monitor the fighting, arrived in the area, 14 miles off the Sinai coast, as a result of a series of United States communication failures, whereby messages directing the ship not to approach within 100 miles were not received by the Liberty. The Israelis mistakenly thought this was the ship doing the shelling and war planes and torpedo boats attacked, killing 34 members of the Liberty's crew and wounding 171.

Numerous mistakes were made by both the United States and Israel. For example, the Liberty was first reported — incorrectly, as it turned out — to be cruising at 30 knots (it was later recalculated to be 28 knots). Under Israeli (and U.S.) naval doctrine at the time, a ship proceeding at that speed was presumed to be a warship. The day fighting began, Israel had asked that American ships be removed from its coast or that it be notified of the precise location of U.S. vessels.28 The Sixth Fleet was moved because President Johnson feared being drawn into a confrontation with the Soviet Union. He also ordered that no aircraft be sent near Sinai.

According to Israeli Chief of Staff Yitzhak Rabin's memoirs, there were standing orders to attack any unidentified vessel near the shore.29 The sea was calm and the U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry found that the Liberty's flag was very likely drooped and not discernible; moreover, members of the crew, including the Captain, Commander William McGonagle, testified that the flag was knocked down after the first or second assault.

A CIA report on the incident issued June 13, 1967, also found that an overzealous pilot could mistake the Liberty for an Egyptian ship, the El Quseir. After the air raid, Israeli torpedo boats identified the Liberty as an Egyptian naval vessel. When the Liberty began shooting at the Israelis, they responded with the torpedo attack, which killed 28 of the sailors.

The argument that the attack was a tragic mistake is further reinforced by a new biography of Yitzhak Rabin (Dan Kurzman, Soldier of Peace: The Life of Yitzhak Rabin. NY: HarperCollins, 1998), who was Israel's Chief of Staff during the war, which says the Israelis initially were terrified that they had attacked a Soviet ship and might have provoked the Soviets to join the fighting. The Israelis were relieved when they learned it was an American ship, though Rabin remained concerned the mistake might jeopardize American support for Israel.30

Once the Israelis were sure what had happened, they reported the incident to the U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv and offered to provide a helicopter for the Americans to fly out to the ship and any help they required to evacuate the injured and salvage the ship. The offer was accepted and a U.S. naval attaché was flown to the Liberty.

Many of the survivors of the Liberty remain bitter, and are convinced the attack was deliberate as they make clear on their web site. In 1991, columnists Rowland Evans and Robert Novak trumpeted their discovery of an American who said he had been in the Israeli war room when the decision was made to knowingly attack the American ship.31 In fact, that individual, Seth Mintz, wrote a letter to the Washington Post on November 9, 1991, in which he said he was misquoted by Evans and Novak and that the attack, was, in fact, a "case of mistaken identity." Moreover, the man who Mintz originally said had been with him, a Gen. Benni Matti, does not exist.

Also, contrary to claims that an Israeli pilot identified the ship as American on a radio tape, no one has ever produced this tape. In fact, the only tape in existence is the official Israeli Air Force tape, which clearly established that no such identification of the ship was made by the Israeli pilots prior to the attack. It also indicates that once the pilots became concerned about the identity of the ship, by virtue of reading its hull number, they terminated the attack. The tapes do not contain any statement suggesting the pilots saw a U.S. flag before the attack.32

None of Israel's accusers can explain why Israel would deliberately attack an American ship at a time when the United States was Israel's only friend and supporter in the world. Confusion in a long line of communications, which occurred in a tense atmosphere on both the American and Israeli sides (five messages from the Joint Chiefs of Staff for the ship to remain at least 25 miles — the last four said 100 miles — off the Egyptian coast arrived after the attack was over) is a more probable explanation.

Accidents caused by “friendly fire” are common in wartime. In 1988, the U.S. Navy mistakenly downed an Iranian passenger plane, killing 290 civilians. During the Gulf War, 35 of the 148 Americans who died in battle were killed by “friendly fire.” In April 1994, two U.S. Black Hawk helicopters with large U.S. flags painted on each side were shot down by U.S. Air Force F-15s on a clear day in the “no fly” zone of Iraq, killing 26 people. In fact, the day before the Liberty was attacked, Israeli pilots accidentally bombed one of their own armored columns south of Jenin on the West Bank.33

Retired Admiral, Shlomo Erell, who was Chief of the Navy in Israel in June 1967, told the Associated Press (June 5, 1977): “No one would ever have dreamt that an American ship would be there. Even the United States didn't know where its ship was. We were advised by the proper authorities that there was no American ship within 100 miles.”

Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara told Congress on July 26, 1967: “It was the conclusion of the investigatory body, headed by an admiral of the Navy in whom we have great confidence, that the attack was not intentional.”

In 1987, McNamara repeated his belief that the attack was a mistake, telling a caller on the “Larry King Show” that he had seen nothing in the 20 years since to change his mind that there had been no “cover-up.”34

Israel apologized for the tragedy and paid nearly $13 million in humanitarian reparations to the United States and to the families of the victims in amounts established by the U.S. State Department. The matter was officially closed between the two governments by an exchange of diplomatic notes on December 17, 1987.

[stuartcr]

I would imagine there are some Palestinians that believe they did what they had to do, also.