Israel attacked the USS LIBERTY

I am also a fervent supporter of Israel, but i also know the Israelis made a boo-boo on this one. The thing is due to certain interests and policies this whole thing got covered over..... and past attempts by congress to investigate it were always negated (this is the only sinking of an American war ship that has not been taken before all pertinent authorities).

However the reason it is never judicious to bring this article up is because certain people mistake this for Israeli bashing.... when all that it is doing is asking a question.

So to all of you flamers out there who will feel compelled to send posts accusing me of being a pro-Palestinian, anti-Israeli neo-Nazi....i am none of them....and i totally support Israel.

However that does not make me turn a blind eye when they do something wrong!

And by the way the incident DID happen .....and saying it 'never happened' is casting the shadow of doubt over the brave lives lost when the USS Liberty was sunk were in vain! (Although technically they did die for no real apparent reason than to ensure the ambuscade of the Israelis on their Arab aggressors did not leak....which is weird since i doubt the US would have assisted the foes of Israel in the first place).

Again i reiterate.....even if a national ally deserves to be viewed in a good light, one should not ignore the bad actions of that country just ebcause it happens to be a friend. Remember Americans were killed.... and you could even call that murder! And for no real reason (and to those who say it was a mistake the Liberty was even flying an American flag at the time).

I am sure, CanadianFella and PoppingSmoke, that if a family friend came to your house and did something wrong (like let's say assaulting and killing someone there) you would not say 'it never happened' just because you like the pal. Or would you?

Whatever the case it doesn't matter. What matters is that the USS Liberty incident happened, whether people like it or not. And stating fact is not 'Israel Bashing!'

GET OVER IT!!! Israel is our ally, they have taken care of it the only way possible, with money and diplomacy, it ain't gonna bring back the dead, but it is over. So how about you guys get over it!!

I usually stay away from such threads (since they are so visceral that people answer with their emotions instead of logic, and hence a lot of flaming occurs) however i could not let this pass! Get over it? I hope you were not serious when you wrote that.

What if Saudi Arabia (which is also an 'ally' although that makes me laugh) sent a couple of princes with a couple of billion from their national coffers, and gave that to the city of New York for the atrocities commited on 9-11 by their comrades (19 of the hijackers were Saudi), and to make it 'better' decided to engage in talks with our government on behalf of the al Queda elements that have been recieving funneled Saudi support and funds. Would you stand there and say Saudi Arabia is our ally, they have taken care of it the only way possible, with money and diplomacy, it ain't gonna bring back the dead, but it is over. So how about you guys get over it!! !

Something tells me you would be screaming to high heaven if such a thing happened. Yet you are willing to tell the families of the people slain on the USS Liberty to 'get over it' because some funds were spent and some palms greased, and a little chit-chat diplomacy done! I really doubt anyone who had a child on that ship would find it as easy to 'forget it' as you did!

And again i ahve to say (on behalf of the lurking flamers out there that may think i am anti-Israeli) that i am actually very pro-Israel. However being so does not make me so myopic that i am willing not to see any wrongdoings by them. There are 34 American sailors burried somewhere because some Israeli general thought the Liberty was a threat and decided it was ok for them to sink the boat. And among the 171 wounded i am sure there are some still alive who still carry wounds from the explosions and churning molten metal, who still look at their wounds and wonder why that had to happen.

And i am sure if they read your post, where you flippantly tells those who are trying to rectify this wrong to 'forget it' they would not be very pleased to meet you.

Although maybe you would also rather forget them!

Love Israel. I know i do. However i am not myopic!

I am not myopic either, the fact is that Israel did what it felt it had to do to protect it's interests.

Sorry to sound so blunt, but if a coutry cannot look after it's own self interest first, then what the hell are we doing? Are we the only ones with a right to defend ourselves, or to watch out for our national security? I don't think so. We stuck our hand into a hornets nest and got stung, the hornets may have been our ally, but the hive was crazy at the time. If you don't expect to get stung at a time like that, then you have wishful thinking to the nth degree.

Israel was watching over it's own self interest and national security. They thought that if that ship got it's info out, then their army and their people would be in more danger then if it was taken out. They took the hardline and took it out. Am I happy about it? NO!!! Do I understand the miltary thinking of Israel that caused it to happen? YES!!!

They have payed reparations, it is over, it is done, it is NOT going to happen again. SO GET OVER IT!!!!

I am not myopic either, the fact is that Israel did what it felt it had to do to protect it's interests. Sorry to sound so blunt, but if a coutry cannot look after it's own self interest first, then what the hell are we doing? Are we the only ones with a right to defend ourselves, or to watch out for our national security? I don't think so. We stuck our hand into a hornets nest and got stung, the hornets may have been our ally, but the hive was crazy at the time. If you don't expect to get stung at a time like that, then you have wishful thinking to the nth degree. Israel was watching over it's own self interest and national security. They thought that if that ship got it's info out, then their army and their people would be in more danger then if it was taken out. They took the hardline and took it out. Am I happy about it? NO!!! Do I understand the miltary thinking of Israel that caused it to happen? YES!!! They have payed reparations, it is over, it is done, it is NOT going to happen again. SO GET OVER IT!!!!

I really do not believe what you just said. However as i said before i do not like to engage myself in such posts since peoples emotions start running hot, and the posts start becoming acerbic and illogical.

However let me ask you one question: If it was Saudi Arabia that had done this instead of Israel...would you be so complacent? After all Saudi Arabia is an ally (hurts to say that) , and lets say they also 'apologized' and sent 'money.' Would you also be telling people to get over it?

And remember the 34 Americans who died were attacked without warning, without provocation, and for no other reason than the belief by Israel that the Liberty MIGHT warn the Arabs! And i guess what really ticks me off was that all these was based on an assumption that was false! I am pretty sure had any other country done this (with the possible exception of Britain) it would have been called murder, and you would be very angry, and would not be as willing to 'let it go.'

Israei -- One atrocity 35 years ago.

Arabs -- hundreds of atrocities and murders against the US (servicemen and civilians) over a continuous period of thirty+ years.

Whose crime is greater?

Why, Israel's, of course!

Why? Why, because they're The Serpent Race, of course!

[End sarcasm]

Go back to originaldissent and discuss "the Aryan worldview" with your pallies.

One thing you should know is that no matter how correct you may be there are some issues that are so visceral for some types of people that they cannot be swayed to think otherwise. One of those issues is Israel.

I myself consider Israel to be a great nation, and i support it in a myriad of ways. And i have several ties to that nation even. HOWEVER my love for Israel is not sufficient to make the sinking of the USS Liberty for no concrete reason become 'nothing!' I may love Israel but when they do a wrong they do a wrong. Just because it is an ally does not mean they can do anything carte blanche.

However (sadly) not everyone is able, or willing, to let logic rule over their emotions. There are many to whom Israel can do no harm...even when it sinks an American ship based on some silly assumption the ship may warn the Golan Heights (think of it....why would we EVER do such a thing)! Thus trying to convince them otherwise is not a real possibility since the emotions tied to this issue are not only socio-political but also religious, cultural and even pseudo-emotional! It would be very hard to convince such a person that Israel did any wrong, even when American sailors are killed.

And the funny thing is that if you substituted Israel for almost any other 'American ally,' for eaxmple Saudi Arabia or even Turkey, i seriously doubt those ardent 'Israel did no wrong/I respect Israel for having the audacity to sink a US ship' would be as supportive of Riyadh. Actually there would be war cries for a 'punitive strike.'

Howevers ince it was Israel someone even had the temerity to say that he 'admires Israel for going aheda with the strike on an American ship knowing the possible risks involved.' If he had said that about ANY other country (Britain INCLUDED) he would have been called a traitor! However in the case of Israel people keep silent since they do not want to be viewed anti-Israel.

However i am totally pro-Israel...YET i will say Israel did wrong in this case. And no justification can erase the fact that Americans were blown up for no good reason whatsoever.

Aaaaaaarghhhhhhh!

Do you not understand! Those who question what Israel did are not anti-zionist nor neo-Nazis! They are just raising a question, and the last time i checked that was allowed without people automatically ataching a label to you. Several, including myself, have even asserted that they are totally pro-Israel. They are just angry such a thing happened.

And as for your statistics on how may Americans have been killed by Israel as compared to other nations, all i have to say is this.

It is true thousands of American lives have been lost due to Arab/Islamic atrocities! Furthermore if you think of it even more Americans have died under British rifles (during the war for Independence) and under Japanese and German ammunition (during WW2).

However the point of this thread was not to have a score tally of how many Americans were killed under whom! Everyone knows Islamic fundamentalism is the greatest threat to the world today! They know the Jehadis want to see Americans dead or dying! However that is not the fundamental core of the thread here.

This thread is about an incident where 34 Americans were killed and over 170 injured. And while 34 dead is not comparable to the thousands that perished during the murderous act of 9-11; it is still 34 dead! And i am sure the families of the 34 slain view that occurence than just a number!

And if you think of it we are at war with the Jehadis! We were at were with the Germans and the Japanese during WW2. We were even at war with the Britons back in the day! However in the USS Liberty case the US was probably one of the EXTREMELY FEW nations to ally with Israel, even to recognize it as a state, and YET the Israelis decided to attack the ship for some lame reason!

I may be pro-Israel, but that stinks!

The fact that Isreal was able to deliberately attack our navy in international waters--and get away with it completely--tells you a lot about how our country is run. Anyone who says the attack wasn't deliberate is either a fool or liar.

[Sarcasm]

It's the Jews! They secretly rule the world! Some little old pious bearded man in black is dictating national policy! They're forcing stores to close on s*t*rday! They're telling our kids they're descended from a single couple created exactly 5751 years, eight months, and 28 days ago! They make us bless G-d a hundred times each day! They're going to rebuild the Holy Temple and bring about the Kingdom of G-d! WILL NO ONE STOP THIS MADNESS!!!

[/Sarcasm]

This "the Jews secretly rule the world" blasphemy is the oldest cr*p in the book, but everyone who stumbles upon it for the first time thinks he's found something new and dangerous that no one else has ever thought of before. They remind me of those little junior high school kids who think they're the only people who've discovered sex.

An atrocity is an atrocity no matter the numbers of killed involved. Just because Milosevic, Pol Pot, Osama and Hitler caused the deaths and suffering of multitudes does not mean that they redeem the crazy drunk who throttles his wife and clobbers his kids one Saturday! The Osamas and the Pol Pots and the Hitlers may be more publicized, and they definitely caused more pain and suffering, but that does not mean the crazy drunk should be set free since 'his crime did not weigh as much as those of the genocidal maniacs!'

A murder is a murder, whether 1 is killed or 6 million... it is only the magnitude the changes. And 34 Americans killed for no reason is the same as 3000 getting killed in 9-11.....the only difference is the magnitude and the intentions.

And to those who have tried to justify the actions of the Israelis as pre-emptie strikes to ensure tha USA does not warn the Golan heights, and even go as far as to 'admire' Israel for having the audacity to attack the Liberty!

That makes me sick!

I have called No one names, you have every right to be angry over the Liberty. It DOES NOT make you a nazi or an antisemite or whatever.

But, I believe that something that happened 30 years ago in the middle of a war, is something that can be tossed to the school of hard knocks, learned from, and move on.

You may be angry about the fact that lives were lost due to an ally attacking us while that ally was at full scale war and a fight for survival, but, I cannot be. Israel was looking out for it's survival, SURVIVAL!! HELLO, they believed that the Liberty posed a clear and present danger to the plans that it had in place. It was a spy ship for gods sake, and they had no clue what the preisdent would have done with that information. "yo, the Israelis are going for the heighths, watch yourselves up there." or something to that effect. The Israelis did not have a clue, and therefore did what they thought was militarily right in order to win the battle.

You may say that we would not have released that information, but do you really know that? Are you telling me that the US would not have done the same in that position. If you say no, AGAIN, you are a dreamer.

Israel did what it thought it had to do inorder to protect it's military and goals at the time. Nothing more, nothing less. It was not personal, it was strictly business. Can't handle it? Oh, well, I have learned in business that you had better be able to.

It was a hornets nest and we got stung, perhaps we should A: either keep our hands out of the nest, or B: help them out to a point where they no longer distrust us enough to attack one of our ships. B is what we have been doing, and it is what we should continue to do. Not because the Jews are god chosen people or whatever dogmatic crap you want to believe in, but because it is the right thing to do. Israel is the ONLY democracy in the middle east, they are the ONLY non-muslim country in the middle east. It is a shining example to those despots and their people, right in their midst,what a democracy and capitalist system can do. That is why we should support Israel.

Why do you think MOST Palestinians want to work in Israel? Why do you think that they are really pissed about the wall going up, because they would have to starve in the Pali lands, whereas there is work and money in Israel. Israel must be saved, it must be thrown into the face of those Muslim freaks that their political system does NOT work, but Israels does.

So, again I say, it is ancient history, it will not happen again, SO GET OVER IT!!!

For of all I do not bash Israel. I tell it like it is. When they do things wrong, they need to be hammered, just like we do when we piss in peoples back yards and then just leave. When Israel is right, like right now, then they need to be supported. When they spy against us, then we need to hammer them. this goes for any allied country.

The USS Liberty did indeed happen. It was an Attack on a UNARMED US Intelligence Ship. If we can go after people who have committed crimes 15-20-30 years ago, then we can also continue this investigation.

That is all I am saying. But then again, no one in position cares and there is another major election cycle coming up.

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