Posted on 06/08/2002 6:19:28 PM PDT by RCW2001
Sir:
All the evil in the world has been caused by deviation from Theonomic positivism, the understanding that right and wrong are determined not by human reason but by Divine decree. It is this value system derived by non-Theistic means that is the very heart of Communism--not "collectivism" or "loss of liberty" or "violations of rights" as you rightwing atheists claim.
The idea that one can arrive at an objective truth about absolute right and wrong by beginning at the self and reasoning outward is the hallmark of Hellenistic humanism. Perhaps you should go to some John Dewey messageboard? When you're not at "originaldissent," that is.
You begin with the foundational thesis that the universe and life are random and meaningless, then you say "this being the case, let us logically deduce how to create the best situation for all people." This is illogical, since in a random, meaningless universe people are no more than rocks or leaves. Do leaves or rocks engage in political philosophy or speculation about "the good life?" No the do not. My advice to you is exactly the same I would give an atheist Communist: kindly go out and practice what you preach by sitting under a tree and doing nothing but let moss grow on you (like a rock) until the random, meaningless processes of the universe claim you. The fact that you advocate "liberty" while Communists advocate "totalitarianism" is a non-issue. Neither of you have any business holding any ideals whatsoever. If you are a materialist, please act as though you were material!!!
Kindly leave the business of ideals to those of us who believe in G-d, who alone have any business having any beliefs or ideals whatsoever. And if we do indeed "destroy the world" as you imply by your "taliban" crack (oooh, is that supposed to be an insult?), so what? After all, the world is random and meaningless. Why do you atheist idealists act as though you don't believe your own constantly proclaimed doctrines? Do you perhaps believe that even in a random, meaningless, material universe that your ideology has metaphysical implications?
Go back to your 18th Century deist Masonic lodge, Mr. Jefferson (SPIT!!!).
As for calling evil good and good evil, these concepts do not exist in the atheist worldview (libertarian or socialist) and you are a base hypocrite for using them. Leave them to us who leave their defintion to Divine decree.
I have tried to be gentle, but i have to do this! It is a sign of low intellectual acumen to attack another Freeper just because he posted something you do not believe in! The purpose of this forum is for conservatives to get together and discuss issues pertinent to our world! And since it is a discussion portal there will obviously be some who have divergent views from your own.
And all the posts i ahve read up to now, none of the posters has said he/she is anti-Israel. some like myself have even asserted they are pro-Israel. All they are doing is questioning what happened, and how that incident was treated after that!
Yet you automatically assume they are anti-Israel anti-zionist conspiracists, who, in your own words, 'remind me of those little junior high school kids who think they're the only people who've discovered sex.'
Again it is a sign of low intellectual acumen to use an acerbic tone to counter people you do not agree with. These people do not hate Israel! They just love America enough to question events that do no make sense! They are not willing to let certain acts by a foreign government be swept under a rug! (and no matter how you look at it Israel may be our good ally, but it is still a foreign government unless you have an Israeli citizenship).
Anyway it would be appreciated if in your replies and posts you state facts, or post opinions. Either is fine since this forum is for factual information or personal/social/political opinions. However calling people anti-zionist conspiracists, or anti-Israel xenophobists, or even alluding them with 'high school kids discovering sex' is not only silly but very akin to the behavior of kindergarten age children! And most importantly not befitting!
Everything comes to an end one day. In Carto's case it will not be soon enough. It's too bad Carto started off the right way, but as in politics he went astray. I can no longer support any of his positions.
Seriously.
I usually try and avoid these types of threads. I dont even really bother to read them or post to them if I can but your comments are getting ridiculous. Too bad it hurts your fweewings that this issue is being brought up.
There are people that post on the USS Cole, The Khobar Tower bombings and other issues.
Maybe if the damn ship never would have been attacked to begin with and the matter hadnt been drawn out for so long then this entire discussion wouldnt even be happening in the first place. But I suppose that would be way to complex a concept for you to wrap yourself around.
Its no different from the WW2 veterans and Fillipino citizens that are currently seeking a full investigation from the Japanese government for the Bataan death march. Even though that was over 50 years ago.
Are you going to tell those individuals to stuff it too? I didnt think so.
So get off it. American servicement have the right to question what happened, as well as why the matter was handled in the way it was. If you feel its inappropriate that it is being brought up at this time or that the matter is settled both are points of view that can be argued on their own merits.
One could only wish...
1) Something did happen, and i would like to know why it happened and why it was covered up. However the more solid reasons why this is really sticking in my head are as follows:
2) Statements from people like Zionist Conspirator where he accuses some of being Aryans and alluding them to 'highschool kids discovering sex'!
and
3) Statements as follows (this one by VBthang4): The attack would've never come had some pussy Liberal President not woken up one morning on the wrong side of God and decided that he was opposed to the Israelis taking ground slated for them to have. Hell, I respect them that much more for doing it knowing the risks involved
That makes me even more pissed at what happened if American citizens can be so flippant, even going as far as 'admiring' Israel!
Are you ok sir?
And none of us like the word SPIT put in brackets next to the accusation that we belong to some Masonic lodge!
Please start stating facts, or posting your opinions. Continuing to insult others (even when the insults are pathetically hilarious) will get you reported for abuse!
That post was not towards you but towards ZC, who seems to find calling people Aryans and sex-crazed high school kids as his only modicum of logical (or in his case illogical) communication.
At any rate, you say this is a forum for "conservatives." What is a "conservative?" I'm from the Fundamentalist Bible Belt, and I always thought all conservatives thought as I did. I joined the Birch Society and learned different.
Whether or not I am a "conservative," I am most definitely a Fundamentalist, a Theocrat, a Ben Noach, and a "Theonomic positivist" (correctly understood). I am very sorry our country was founded by rationalist/deist Freemasons, but it was. I'm sorry the American Revolution was the first cause celibre of the International Left, but it was. I'm sorry that most of our national heroes in all fields have been extreme liberals in religious matters (despite what Pat Robertson thinks), but it is true nonetheless. I must ultimately derive my beliefs not from George Washington or the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution, but from A-mighty G-d. G-d is the only yardstick by which all things are to be judged. I reject all secular criteria whatsoever. If this attitude is "un-American," so be it (I notice ultra-rightwing Catholics are never scolded for holding similar opinions).
Hashem is G-d. Despite James Madison and the Bill of Rights, all people everywhere, individually and corporately, are bound by Divine Law--not "natural" law and not human law. G-d has more authority than James Madison, even if He is "un-American." And one of the things forbidden to all is blasphemy.
As you know (and as you admit on that **other** messageboard where you guys hang out), the whole idea that it is one of the highest tenets and goals of the conservative movement to single out the USS Liberty for outrage, out of all US history, is merely an excuse to attack the "conspiracy" at its "heart." Many of your buddies in fact who deny they are anti-Semites here often post comments about "Judaeo-Bolshevism" and "the tribe" (and how we Benei Noach are tools for the "evil, new age" goal of rebuilding the ancient House of G-d and reinstituting the `Avodat HaQodesh) on that other website without even bothering to use a different posting name!
Your tactic of "now, has anyone here said he was anti-Israel?" is transparent. Anti-Semites never admit they are anti-Semites in the presence of others. However, among themselves they certainly admit and glory in this, thus branding themselves as bald-faced liars.
Likewise, your tactic of "well now, it happened, didn't it? You can't deny that?" is a common anti-Semitic ploy, similar to "hey, all I said is that Karl Marx was Jewish. You can't deny that!" Small atomistic bits of truth ripped out of context can be put to sinister use.
BTW, I'm watching you guys on that other forum, so be careful what you post there. Just a friendly word of warning!
All things, including the entire American system, must be critiqued from the perspective of the Law of G-d (as the rightwing Catholics say without fear of attack). If that means I am not "conservative," so be it.
BTW, accusations that I am falling short of secular standards of right or virtue have absolutely no effect on me, since I abjure all those standards.
Thank you.
P.S.: Know where I can get a red heifer?
Here We Go Guys...another bunch of BS ping...
And by the way what is this 'other forum' that you are 'tracking' me and 'others lime me' in? Please share your 'secret' with us so we may all know extent of your delusions.
And now to counter some of your silly lil' assertions (i find this a hilarious task by the way):
Spetnazz, member since m*y 9, 2002. You are one to determine what this forum is for, aren't you? I have been a member of this forum a lot longer than you have (unless you're actually some banned anti-Semite sneaking back under a new name).
I may have become a member in May, and you may have been in this forum for much longer....however if you look at the quality of our posts at the very least (whether you agree with my opinions or not) i do not resort to juvenile name calling. Calling people 'sex-crazed high school kids!' That's just plain weird.
At any rate, you say this is a forum for "conservatives." What is a "conservative?" I'm from the Fundamentalist Bible Belt, and I always thought all conservatives thought as I did. I joined the Birch Society and learned different.
Just because someone is a conservative does not mean they think like you do! Not every conservative is, as you refer to yourself, a 'Fundamentalist, a Theocrat, a Ben Noach, and a "Theonomic positivist.' In the United States of America everyone DOES NOT have to think the same....that is a communist/socialist facet of life.....in the US we are a constituitional republic with certain rights and priviledges, one being that we do not have to all think like you do (thank goodness for that).
BTW, I'm watching you guys on that other forum, so be careful what you post there. Just a friendly word of warning!
Oh please please...reveal my secret identity as Hilary Clinton to the rest of the Freepers. Ooohh, you have me! I knew i could not hide from you (super-hyper-duper SARCASM!)
P.S.: Know where I can get a red heifer?
Wow, you are one of those who are looking for a red heifer. Well, i will help you with that one. A red heifer was found in Israel (and maybe if you were to check that out instead of 'seeing' neo-Nazis and Aryans left right and center) you would know that! I am not sure whether the Rabbis have termed it clean or not! Or maybe it is some nefarious plot by outer-space alien aryan high school kids bent on world domination!
Tadadadadada.
You are very funny.
Your kind always accuse us of "trying to impose our beliefs on others." So do atheists. The only difference is that at least we believe our beliefs come from a Supreme Authority while you admit that yours are nothing but your own hang-ups, which somehow makes them reasonable and all right. This is exactly what the Communists do, btw.
Oh, and anticipating your next old, tired worn-out argument (if G-d is the basis of right and wrong, which G-d shall we choose?), then I'll take care of that now. Here goes: You know, you're right. No one can show which G-d is really true. So what do we do? Wow, I suppose we're right back to arguing over which hang-ups of which atheists shall be imposed on the human race. Isn't that so much better??? [/Sarcasm]
If I argued my points not on Divine authority but because I could logically deduce from Hellenistic rationalist principals that it would produce "the good life" would that make it okay to call for the rebuilding of the Temple and the reinstitution of animal sacrifices?
Sheesh.
If I were an ultrarightwing Lefebvrist Catholic rather than a Noachide you people would welcome me with open arms. I notice that even their monarchism is considered good maiinstream conservatism. I guess I believe in the "wrong" G-d.
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