FReepre Report: Pro-Isreal US Rally Unites Hundreds in Fresno

6-9=2002 | me

[B.R. Burton]

"the Jews sure seem to be plagued."

This is because they mirror the Messiah. For Jesus to be God's Son, He sure went through ALOT of trouble in His Life. Praise Him for it!

"country of Israel is just a name given to the land they took from the Arabs in war." Au contrair! This is the prophesied return of the Jews as written in the Scriptures!

"Do you have some kind of perception problem caused by inaccurate data?"

Why you would take this slight, I have no idea.

Ben

[William Terrell]

This is because they mirror the Messiah. For Jesus to be God's Son, He sure went through ALOT of trouble in His Life. Praise Him for it!

The Jews don't believe Jesus is the Messiah. Perhaps you can find some Biblical reference that indicates that the last few centuries of persecution is God's reward for being His chosen people, and not attonement for their inequities. Jesus lived for what, 30 years? Persecution for the Jews has been going on for centuries.

This is the prophesied return of the Jews as written in the Scriptures!

Then how do you explain Hosea 1:10,11?

Why you would take this slight, I have no idea.

It's not a slight; it's a question. You've been playing back conditioning. The reason I think it's conditioning is because the historical and Biblical record indicate otherwise. That would mean you've been passed information and you believed it without verification, or you picked up assumptions by implication from emotional messages, or both.

I wondered if you would become were aware of it if asked. The actually works sometimes. It's not a judgement on you because we're all conditioned in one way or another and not aware of it.

[LostTribe]

>I mean the Nation of Israel, God's people, the Jews, the Apple of His eye.

The Jews are not the exclusive Apple of His eye. 

Deuteronomy 32

     7 Remember the days of old;
     consider the generations long past.
     Ask your father and he will tell you,
     your elders, and they will explain to you.
     8 When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance,
     when he divided all mankind,
     he set up boundaries for the peoples
     according to the number of the sons of Israel. 
     9 For the Lord 's portion is his people,
     Jacob his allotted inheritance.

     10 In a desert land he found him,
     in a barren and howling waste.
     He shielded him and cared for him;
     he guarded him as the apple of his eye,
     11 like an eagle that stirs up its nest
     and hovers over its young,
     that spreads its wings to catch them
     and carries them on its pinions.
     12 The Lord alone led him;
     no foreign god was with him.

Jacob was not a Jew.  Nor were his sons:

Most were Hebrews and Israelites but NONE were JEWS

Genesis:  God, Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel, Seth, Enoch, Methuselah, Noah, Shem, Ham, Japheth, Lot, Abraham , Sara, Melchizedek, Eliezer, Hagar, Ishmael, Isaac , Abimelech, Rebekah, Laban, Keturah, Esau, Jacob/Israel , Leah, Rachel, Reuben, Simeon, Levi , Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, Benjamin, Dinah, Potiphar, Tamar, Perez, Zerah, Manasseh, Ephraim.

Exodus:  Moses, Zipporah, Gershom, Jethro, Aaron, Eleazar, Joshua, Hur , Nadab, Abihu, Ithamar, Bezalel, Uri, Nun, Oholiab, Ahisamach.

Leviticus:  Mishael, Elzaphan, Uzziel, Molech, Shelomith, Dibri.

Others:  David, Solomon and Sampson were not Jews, among many others...

None of the Israelites were called "Jews" until well after the collapse of the original Davidic Kingdom of Israel.  These 5 MILLION Israelites split into Northern and Southern Kingdoms in about 922 BC, and both Kingdoms were taken into captivity and separate diaspora within 400 years.

It was not until ~500 BC, following the return of remnants of the Southern Kingdom from Bablyon that the name Jew appears. Those ~50,000 Jews were Southern Kingdom Israelites.

They were only a tiny group compared to the Millions of Israelites from the Northern Kingdom who had escaped their Assyrian captivity and moved on to appear in history as The Celts .

[B.R. Burton]

"The Jews don't believe Jesus is the Messiah. Perhaps you can find some Biblical reference that indicates that the last few centuries of persecution is God's reward for being His chosen people, and not attonement for their inequities."

The Jews will believe in Jesus as the Messiah, and yes, the Diaspora of the Jews is in a sense, an atonement.

"Jesus lived for what, 30 years? Persecution for the Jews has been going on for centuries.

He was dead for 2 days, and rose on the 3rd. Israel has been "dead" for 2 thousand years, and have arisen again, and will soon become officially resurrected through their spontaneous faith in the Messiah.

[B.R. Burton]

I'm not so sure of the Lost Tribes theory, in terms of them showing up in Europe, etc.

[LostTribe]

>I'm not so sure of the Lost Tribes theory, in terms of them showing up in Europe, etc.

Fair enough. Suggest you get a copy of the book on the Assyrian Tablets in the British Museum. A link is at my Profile.

It sets out the case in a very solid but readible way. These original Assyrian records have much to say about the Northern Kingdom while it was captive there, and where it went from Assyria. (HINT: They were not "assimilated".) Give it a fair trial and I think you be impressed with the evidence.

(Click on my Profile for details.)

[William Terrell]

The Jews will believe in Jesus as the Messiah, and yes, the Diaspora of the Jews is in a sense, an atonement.

You mean when Jesus returns? It would be about time, don't you think, since they were His source people the first time? But they don't now. The diaspora of the House of Judah was not, in a sense, an atonement; it was in atonement for their turning from God, same as with the House of Israel. God Himself spanked both Houses, one of which we know as the Jews. Maybe "chastisement" would have been a better word.

Israel has been "dead" for 2 thousand years, and have arisen again, and will soon become officially resurrected through their spontaneous faith in the Messiah.

It's Judah mainly that needs to accept the Messiah. Israel, if I read the numbers right, makes up the balance of the Christians. Apparantly they were more willing to listen than than the Jews.

[LostTribe]

>Israel, if I read the numbers right, makes up the balance of the Christians. Apparantly they were more willing to listen than than the Jews.

That's an interesting way to look at it, and I believe an accurate one. The Northern Kingdom has come to Christ, but the Southern Kingdom has not. The bulk of Christianity today is made up of House of Israelites.

(The error in much modern thinking is that todays Christians are "Gentiles". They are indeed Jewish Gentiles, but they are not Israelite Gentiles, for they are Israelites.)

[William Terrell]

That's an interesting way to look at it, and I believe an accurate one.

Well, if the Celts were Israelites, then chances are the Saxons, Anglos and Germanic tribes were, too. They all appear to be the same racial stock. Europe is Christian and likewise its children: America, Austrailia, New Zealand, ect. Seems to be a logical assumption.

Judah need to upgrade to Covenant v 2.0. They've been running spiritualware no longer supported by GodSoft.

[LostTribe]

>Judah needs to upgrade to Covenant v 2.0. They've been running spiritualware no longer supported by GodSoft.

That's a great line.  I just stole it!

>Well, if the Celts were Israelites, then chances are the Saxons, Anglos and Germanic tribes were, too.

Yes, with the exception of modern Germany. The present territory of ~Germany was named after the Germani, a Celtic tribe.  But the Germani were later forced west and northward by Slavic tribes. Germany today is considered a (primarily) Slavic country, but also having a strong Celtic presence. The balance of the Northern and Western European countries (including Spain) are primarily Celtic.

>They all appear to be the same racial stock. Europe is Christian and likewise its children: America, Austrailia, New Zealand, ect. Seems to be a logical assumption.

Physical appearance, like linguistics, is one of many factors, none of which IMHO is ultimately definitive. But it is interesting to examine the question "who else in the world looks like todays Jews?"  Not the blacks of Africa.  Not the yellows of Asia.  Not the indians of South America. Only the Celts of Europe are candidates among the major world ethnic groupings. The steroetype of Jews running around dressed in funny black suits and funny haircuts, with Yassir Arafat type noses carrying bags of money and diamonds is simply a false one.  The vast majority of Jews look very similar to their Celtic cousins.

Taken furthur, if you put a group of Jews and Celts in the same room and dressed and coiffed them the same, could you really tell who was which?  Bearing in mind that even brothers and sisters in the same family look different, and the Celts and Jews are cousins, not siblings, you would be hard pressed to identify with any accuracy which are which.

If you did know ahead of time that all the people in this list are reported by Jewish sites to be Jews, how many of them would you have thought were not?

Joseph Lieberman, Paul Newman, Ted Koppel, Harrison Ford, Efrem Zimbalist, Jr., Kirk Douglas, Kevin Costner, Stephen Breyer, Yitzhak Rabin, Michael Landon, Lorne Greene, Mike Wallace, Benjamin Netanyahu, William Shatner, Douglas Fairbanks, Cary Grant, Leonard Bernstein, Paul Simon, Ariel Sharon, David Frost, Morley Safer, Ari Fleischer,

Steve Balmer, Jack Benny, Alan King, Casper Weinberger, Carl Reiner, George Burns, Red Buttons, Sam Levinson, Bernard Goldberg, Robert Downey Jr., Dustin Hoffman, Michael Douglas, Peter Sellers, Tony Curtis, Edward G. Robinson, Wolf Blitzer, Mel Torme, Paul Wellstone, Peter Falk, Leonard Nimoy, Jerry Springer, Arlen Spector, William Cohen,

Barry Goldwater, Robert Rubin, William Roth, Howard Metzenbaum, Hyman Rickover, Robert Reich, Russ Feinberg, Stanley Mosk, Arthur Burns, Milton Friedman, Bill Kristol, Victor Borge, William Kristol, Warren Rudman, etc., etc., etc.

[William Terrell]

I have a hard time telling Jews from anybody else. Are you saying that the Russians, Poles and the like aren't descended from Israel? What about Bosnians, for instance, or the Czechs?

[LostTribe]

>I have a hard time telling Jews from anybody else. Are you saying that the Russians, Poles and the like aren't descended from Israel? What about Bosnians, for instance, or the Czechs?

Trying to put national borders around "Celts" or "Jews" or any other group is perilous, and ultimately not very important, IMHO. My interest is in trying to identify the major streams of history insofar as they apply to the ancient Israelites.

It is not difficult to identify the Celts as the rootstock and main contributors to the genetic pool of most of the nations of NW Europe. And it is becoming increasingly easy to identify the Kingdom of Israel, known as the Lost Tribes of Israel taken captive to Assyria as the source of the Celts. Every year brings more archeological finds which reinforce what were hundreds of years ago just "hunches" or theories. A major NYT article last December reported the Celts in eastern Turkey about the same time the Lost Tribes went missing in the same area. When such coincidences become routine, maybe it isn't just coincidence any more.

[LostTribe]

Celtic is a major designation of peoples which incorporates later groups such as Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Scythians, Sarmatians, Cimmerians, and at least a dozen others. Much of European history micro-concentrates on these various groups but fails to see them in total context. Like studying the trees without seeing the larger forest.

Much of European history is about these Celtic groups, The Lost Tribes, fighting among themselves, just at they did in Egypt and ~Palestine long before.