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The Vatican & the Kremlin
Catholic Exchange ^ | 8 June 2002 | L. Brent Bozell

Posted on 06/09/2002 7:12:29 AM PDT by big'ol_freeper

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To: BlackElk
Martin also wrote a semi-fictional book called "Windswept House" which exposes the homosexual network in the American Church and in Rome (and its vile initiation rites as well as its 'stop at nothing' method of keeping silence in the ranks.)

Still awaiting the rise of the EuroLeader---doesn't look like Gorby's going to make it anymore.

21 posted on 06/09/2002 10:16:10 AM PDT by ninenot
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To: BlackElk
Could you please retype that again? One more time?
22 posted on 06/09/2002 10:29:34 AM PDT by concerned about politics
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To: Orual
What is the Christodrama they discuss that his 'friend' wants church money for?
23 posted on 06/09/2002 10:37:20 AM PDT by concerned about politics
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To: concerned about politics
If you will click here about three-quarters of the way down the column and to the right, you will see a photo of Paul Marcoux. Underneath the photo is a link to the Christodrama.
24 posted on 06/09/2002 10:45:54 AM PDT by Orual
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To: ninenot
Still awaiting the rise of the EuroLeader---doesn't look like Gorby's going to make it anymore.

He'll elect himself, so I say Clinton. He's always over there.

25 posted on 06/09/2002 10:45:59 AM PDT by concerned about politics
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To: BlackElk, big ol freeper
wow.

Great posts.

26 posted on 06/09/2002 11:03:40 AM PDT by Cap'n Crunch
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To: BlackElk
I read yesterday an article that, of the 300 currently pending civil cases against pervert priests and their protectors, fully 113 are pending in your own Commonwealth of Kentucky

KENTUCKY HAS MOST SUITS
Dioceses in Kentucky face the most lawsuits — 122 — with more than a third involving claims against one priest, the Rev. Louis E. Miller, who denies wrongdoing. Three other suits allege abuse by Lexington Bishop Kendrick Williams while he was a Louisville priest. He also has denied any wrongdoing.
source

But also this from the same article -
"Daniel Holden, attorney for the Orange County, Calif., diocese said it would take a couple of years for these cases alone to be resolved, and more will certainly be filed in the coming months. New York attorney Michael Dowd said he was still preparing about 60 molestation claims against dioceses in his area. Chicago Cardinal Francis George may sell the mansion where the city’s archbishops have lived for more than a century, acknowledging some of the proceeds could be used to pay legal fees in abuse cases. Almost 250 of the nation’s more than 46,000 Roman Catholic priests have either been dismissed from their duties or resigned since the scandal began in January."

Which seems to indicate the filing is still very much in process?

27 posted on 06/09/2002 11:17:05 AM PDT by MarMema
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To: The Great RJ
the Church has botched the handling of these abuse cases.

Indeed it has, but if hadn't botched so many other things along the way (many of them smiled upon by the liberal media), there wouldn't have been nearly so many abuse cases in the first place.

28 posted on 06/09/2002 11:19:09 AM PDT by maryz
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To: big'ol_freeper
The church is "intolerant of dissent, . . .

Really? I missed that -- I wonder what he gave for examples. It has reacted to some dissent, but it's been pretty much "no enemy to the left."

29 posted on 06/09/2002 11:21:34 AM PDT by maryz
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To: BlackElk
Luciani, elected as John Paul I, . . . was an absolute warrior against internal corruption of the Church.

Could you expand on this, if it's not too much trouble? I really don't remember him very well.

30 posted on 06/09/2002 12:42:49 PM PDT by maryz
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To: big'ol_freeper
It's a stupid comparison. The Pope is first among equals. The American Bishops are much more culpable than the pope and even that is a misleading statement. The Catholic Church is not totalitarian.

Even blaming the bishops is wrong, many made mistakes, but the Devil takes advantage of those mistakes to make them worse than they might have been. Forgiveness is a good thing, but it's two-edged.

Ultimately homosexuality is the problem, something the NY Times would never accede to, being run by flames.

31 posted on 06/09/2002 2:51:48 PM PDT by WriteOn
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Comment #32 Removed by Moderator

Comment #33 Removed by Moderator

To: WriteOn
Homosexuality involving clerics and their victims of any age is the problem indeed along with the cultural of coverup that prevails in the most liberal sectors of the AmChurch hierarchy. The bishops of AmChurch are far more culpable than the Vatican which cannot micromanage each parish and each pervert welcomed into the pink palace seminaries here in our sorry era or the hierarchical liberal liars who actively mislead Rome while covering their lavender pals.

The Roman Catholic Church is not totalitarian in the sense of the soviets but it IS an absolute monarchy whose monarch is the pope. In present circumstances, twilight falls upon the third longest papacy in history and one of the most remarkable. John Paul II is a great man and a great pope but all good things must come to an end. The cumulative effects of his 82 years, the gut shot assassination attempt, tumors, broken hips, and now the degenerative and devastating Parkinson's disease are sending him the way of all flesh. While the cat is dying, the AmChurch hierarchical leftist mice are doing their worst to resist Roman authority. That should be resolved at the next conclave when a new and vigorous pope will be elected to deal with them. The AmChurch left should enjoy themselves for this short period of time, for the last time.

It is not possible to view the American liberal bishops as anything less than responsible for this mess. They are close enough to the scene of the infamies to detect and punish. Most have chosen not to do so. They will have to be punished for their derelictions along with their lavender protectees.

Forgiveness is a wonderful thing but it must be preceded by sincere and complete confession of the sin. If these bishops and lavender priests want the forgiveness of God, they know that they must each make a good confession, resolve not to sin again and avoid the near occasion of sin, just like anyone else. If, in their positions of public trust, they wish to be forgiven by their victims and by the public, that road is harder, requires a full public confession and sorrow and a credible resolve to clean up the mess an d avoid it in the future.

This is one Catholic who cannot imagine the offenders reaching the point of public credibility where that is possible. One strike, now, in the past, or in the future and they are out. Nothing less will do. The pope is regarded within the Roman Catholic Church as the Vicar of Jesus Christ upon this earth. He is much more than "first among equals." Infallibility attahes to the pope's statements upon matters of faith and morals when issued ex cathedra (from the papal office) and specifically invoking that infallibility. This is an infallibility at the level of dogma and has been invoked three times to my knowledge since the doctrine was defined by the First Vatican Council and Pope Blessed Pius IX. Those instances were a confirmation of the dogmatic nature of the conciliar decree on papal infallibility (Pius IX), the dogmatic truth that Mary was conceived specially without the burden of Original Sin borne by all descendants of Adam and Eve other than Mary and, of course, Jesus Christ, hers known as the Immaculate Conception (Pius IX), and the dogmatic truth that the Blessed Virgin Mary at the end of her days on earth was assumed, body and soul, into heaven, known as the Assumption (Pius XII).

In the matter of infallibility, Pius IX confirmed the action of a council of bishops. Without his confirmation, according to Church tradition and the terms of their action, their doctrine of papal infallibility would not have been dogmatic. Pius IX could have proclaimed the doctrine on his own without them. Neither Pius IX as to the Immaculate Conception nor Pius XII as to the Assumption had any need of action by fellow bishops much less their approval. What was required was their submission in those cases where bishops were holding out on doctrines long held under the normal Church standard of antiquity, universality and consensus as articulated by Tertullian in the Third Century,

There is also an "ordinary infallibility" which is far more common. For example, Pope John Paul II has responded to calls for women priests not only by saying no but by saying that the ordination of women has been, is, and always will be beyond the ability of the Roman Catholic Church. He has said this without specific invocation of infallibility but the "ordinary infallibility" attaches and he is entitled now and in the future to the submission and assent of all Roman Catholic Church authorities and faithful. This one power is not that of "first among equals" and refutes any assumption of "first among equals." We certainly do not afford any presumption of infallibility to the sorry likes of former Milwaukee Archbishop Rembert Weakland or the late Archbishop of Chicago, Joseph Cardinal Bernardin, or current Archbishop of Los Angeles Roger Cardinal Mahoney and a good thing too since all of them will soon enough be gone and be forgotten with the rest of the in-house rebellious except as negative examples.

34 posted on 06/09/2002 6:34:59 PM PDT by BlackElk
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To: maryz
Yes, when Albino Cardinal Luciani (later Pope John Paul I) was named as Patriarch (Archbishop) of Venice by, I believe, Pope John XXIII, in which case Luciani would have been John XXIII's direct successor in Venice (the See of St. Mark), he was not particularly prominent although he was from a mountainous region in Northern Italy. He was a close protege of Alfredo Cardinal Ottaviani, a grand Curial Cardinal and "fine Roman hand" who had been the head of the Congegation for the Doctrine of the Faith (formerly known as the Inquisition) under Pope Pius XII.

Cardinal Ottaviani was an absolute pillar of orthodoxy. His personal circle of cardinalitial friends included Carlo Cardinal Confalonieri (dean of the college and appointed in the World War I era but still ramrod straight and possessed of his considerable intellect at 95), and Amleto Cardinal Cicognani,long the Vatican's representative in the United States who had a strong hand in choosing the grand generation of American cardinals serving prior to Vatican II: Spellman, Cushing, Stritch, McIntyre, et al. (if I am wrong on one or two, forgive me) who were giants compared to such pygmies and termites as Bernardin and Law and Mahoney, et al., who came later.

Luciani had served as a teacher when he was a protege of Cardinal Ottaviani and he had a very strong reputation for orthodoxy. On the other hand, he had a sunny disposition and a wonderful smile which captured the fancy of many of the most liberal observers when he was elected pope (particularly compared to the grumpy disposition of Paul VI).

Upon arrival in Venice, he cultivated a public image as an amiable but harmless and nice old man by indulging in reading stories of saints to children in person and on a nationwide radio hookup, compiling his stories into a published book called Illustrissimi, and walking around in Venice feeding the pigeons and engaging passersby in charming conversation. The gentle and kind exterior concealed the steel within in the tradition of the "fine Roman hand."

Luciani had a falling out with his mentor, the now retired Cardinal Ottaviani over one issue at Vatican II which estranged them for years. The issue was the Vatican II document which declared the Church prudentially to be committed to defending the religious rights of those in error (i.e., non-Catholics, including even non-Christians and atheists and agnostics). Ottaviani was very definitely of the old school on the subject and he was not alone in being shocked by the apparent change in Church policy even if only prudential and not dogmatic. Luciani was somewhat more modern in his orientation on the question and accepted publicly and privately the Church's commitment to the religious rights of those OUTSIDE the Church. This is to be distinguished from some purported conscience-based right to differ with doctrine WITHIN the Church itself. Nonetheless there was a definite split between the two old friends of different generations.

After about three years of feeding the pigeons and reading and writing children's stories, Patriarch Luciani notified all the priests of the Venice Patriarchate that they were to report to St. Mark's Cathedral on a particular morning and that no excuses for absence would be accepted other than death or the immediate proximity of same. Weddings and funerals were to be postponed as necessary.

When the muttering clerics arrived, Luciani had the doors of the cathedral locked to the public, locking the priests inside. He then informed them that he had commissioned a general study of practices of the priests within the patriarchate upon his appointment three years before and that that investigation and audits had revealed a substantial degree of stealing of Church assets, particularely from funds designated for charitable activity towards the poor. He named names and amounts and the destinations of the stolen funds and other misbehavior by his clerics. He ordered the funds restored immediately and their recovery from (usually) the relatives of the priests who had received the funds for luxuries available to the clerical thieves. Luciani told the priests assembled that there would be a window of about thirty days during which he would do nothing else but hear from them as their misdeeds, discovered or not, and that anyone not reporting and admitting who was later found responsible would be nuked for unadmitted misbehavior. Luciani then threw the doors open to the press and revealed the details of the investigations and the meetings. The program continued until morale and behavior markedly improved. Finally, he ordered that one third of the income of each parish be taken from funds available to the priests' living expenses and placed in trust for the poor, the retarded, the crippled, the sick, etc. for a specified period of years IN ADDITION to restitution.

Cardinal Luciani was also the spiritual advisor to Italy's national Catholic Youth Organization (whatever the name) and, in that capacity, he attended a national convention of the group. A major issue in Italian politics at the time was a plebiscite or national referendum seeking to legalize divorce. A resolution was placed upon the floor of the youth convention to put the organization on record as favoring the legalization of divorce. No one consulted Luciani in advance and there is no doubt he would have vetoed the idea in advance. The resolution passed. Luciani held a press conference and announced his action allowed by the constitution of the group to disband the group altogether. He maintained his sunny disposition during the press conference. When the leaders of the disbanded group came begging to him that they would repeal the resolution if only he would reverse his action, he told them that he would not reverse his action, that their action had not been that of a Catholic group, smiled and bid them farewell.

These are but two instances of Luciani's determined action. You may rest assured that his surprise election as pope terrified Church liberals and exterior enemies of the Church as well. That he was the target of an assassination is wuite credible. He announced upon his election that he was retaining the entire Curia and household staff for the time being. There were at least three widely varying stories as to how his death was discovered, as to the location and disposition of the corpse upon discovery, etc. Even the liberal Jesuit Vatican magazine Civilta Cattolica called for an immediate autopsy. Conflicting stories were published as to the state of his health prior to election. Vatican denials of assassination attempts were often less than candid as to several popes including John Paul I and John Paul II.

Upon the sudden death of John Paul I, the cardinals turned to a man from Poland who had spent his adult life avoiding the depradations of communists and nazis and dealing effectively against the communists as a prelate in Poland. This experienced hand at defending against political intrigue immediately fired the entire household staff right down to the furnace tender on the basis that he needed a staff fluent in Polish and knowledgeable in Polish cooking.

No assassination attempt of the several against John Paul II arose within the papal household.

Pope Paul VI was aligned with "progressive" forces within the college of cardinals. He apparently hoped to control the succession by appointing many "progressive" electors and by banning those cardinals over eighty from conclave (to exclude Ottaviani, Cicognani and Confalonieri). The actually moderate Cardinal Benelli is believed to have worked the conclave to elect Luciani with the able assistance of the Dominican Cardinal Ciappi and the black African cardinals who made up a sizable voting group of 15 or more wielded by Bernardin Cardinal Gantin of Dahomey, who remained papabile until age precluded him as a possible successor but there are others including Hyacinthe Cardinal Thiandoum (also aged) and Francis Cardinal Arinze of Nigeria (not aged and quite papabile). Ottaviani, Cicognani and Confalonieri became outside kingmakers by greeting each of the incoming cardinal electors at Rome's airport and giving them an earful to take into conclave.

35 posted on 06/09/2002 8:32:17 PM PDT by BlackElk
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To: BlackElk
Most illuminating. Thank you. Are there any more like Luciani warming up in the bull-pen?
36 posted on 06/10/2002 2:42:30 AM PDT by maryz
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To: BlackElk
Point taken. "First among equals" is the Orthodox position, the Catholic positions is: "The Pope is the supreme head of the Catholic Hierarchy, to whom all clerics are responsible. The Sacred College of Cardinals is his counseling body, but is not itself a legislative entity, and the Roman Pontiff thus has rule over the Church. He is not merely a first among equals with the College of Bishops or even the College of Patriarchs, but he is rather the jurisdictional and spiritual superior of all clergy in the world.

His jurisdictional titles are Bishop of Rome, Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province, Primate of Italy, Patriarch of the West, and Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church. So, every metropolitan of the Roman Catholic Church is subject to him as Patriarch of the West, and every patriarch (or metropolitan or bishop not subject to a patriarch) is subject to him as Supreme Pontiff. The other ecclesiastical titles of the pope are Vicar of Jesus Christ, Servant of the Servants of God, and Successor of Saint Peter, Prince of the Apostles. In addition, he holds the temporal title of Sovereign of the State of Vatican City, making him an equal of any other worldly heads of state. "

37 posted on 06/10/2002 6:41:13 AM PDT by WriteOn
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To: TonyRo76
Lol. You say it much more poetically than I.
38 posted on 06/10/2002 6:42:23 AM PDT by WriteOn
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To: maryz
I have no specific idea since Malachi Martin is now dead and would have given us the inside information by now if he had lived. Albino Luciani was unique in his specific background even in his day. If he were alive today, he would be 90 or thereabouts. There was a lot of very formative history in Europe in the early to mid-20th century which will not have been personally experienced by any future pope.

That is as it should be because the ancient Church is ever renewed by the election of new popes and their selection of new cardinals who bring recent experience to bear within the bounds of tradition. Review what has happened in our own lifetimes in my case since 1946.

Eugenio Pacelli (Pius XII) was probably the last pope who will have had a lay Vatican Secretary of State for a father, to have studied at home for the priesthood, to have witnessed personally in Germany the rise of World War I Era communism in Bavaria as nuncio and the rise of nazism in Berlin as nuncio there. He was superbly qualified as Vatican Secretary of State to masterfully steer the Barque of Peter through the Scylla and Charibdis of communism and nazism, to calmly witness Franco's retaking of Spain from the communists and anarchists who had slaughtered more than half our priests, raped and murdered our nuns and burned most of our churches there.

The elderly John XXIII had been a protege of Pius XII from a peasant agricultural family and he was aged when elected. He had a background in the Vatican diplomatic corps as well in dismal lands (for Catholics) like Bulgaria and Turkey and used his position to falsify passports to facilitate the survival of Jews. He was a prudential disaster as pope in that his optimism exceeded common sense as he opened the Church windows and allowed the pollution of the world to permeate the air within.

Paul VI was a noble and a peer to the throne of Italy. He also had a background in the Secretariat of State. As a young monsignor in Pius XI's Vatican in about 1930, he spotted from his office a young couple exchanging a chaste kiss while sitting on a low wall. When he went to reprimand them for their behavior on Vatican property, he learned that they were engaged to be married soon and were both children of Vatican lay officials. He reprimanded them severely. Though seeing no enemies to his left as pope, he retained a severe puritanical streak which allowed the birth controlling enthusiasts within the Church to parody him wrongfully when they rebelled against Humanae Vitae (the anti-birth control encyclical). His eyes opened by the rebellion of his "progressive" allies, he spent the rest of his papacy as a prisoner of it and muttered truthfully that the smoke of satan had surrounded our altars. By 1978 when he died, even his cardinals had had quite enough of ineffectual dead end leadership cozying up to Marxists in Italy and in the world and denouncing the Vietnam War (ludicrously) as "racist genocide." Paul VI was the last diplomat pope elected to date.

We have discussed Albino Cardinal Luciani and his election as John Paul I. I have always thought that his choice of the two names was an attempt to blur the memory of his failed predecessors to pave the way for a future in which we might say that John and Paul could not have been too bad, after all Luciani took the name John Paul. Confirming the trend, so did the very different next pope from Poland.

The election of Karol Cardinal Wojtlywa as the first non-Italian pope in 300 years was certainly a shock to the conventional wisdom and, as we now know, a stroke of brilliance. His election and service have been so well received by anyone whose opinion may caount, his performance with a very different set of personal tools has been so magnificent, that we may expect the next election to be a stunning further surprise such as the election of a non-European Third World pope of great orthodoxy and vigor.

Such an election would further underline the universality of the Roman Catholic Church. Leftist cynics and sophisticatos who are so common in AmChurch and in Anglo-Saxon nations and in worn-out Western Europe will get used to telling racial jokes about the new pope in resentment of his orthodoxy once that is clear and they enter their final despair and agony over what they have lost. The racial cracks will be about as effective as the Polish jokes about JP II. That new pope will have to introduce himself to the Western world which will be unfamiliar with him as we were unfamiliar with Wojtlywa by making JP II's travel schedule look tame.

Walter Cardinal Kasper of Germany was scheduled to attend the American bishops' meeting this week to give the Cardinal Bernardin award (presumably for public heresy or worse private behavior) to former Archbishop Rembert Weakland, of all people, according to the AmChurch Commonweal magazine, published just before Rembert was caught with his, ummm, pants down. We may assume that the award will be at least postponed but who knows? In any event, mark Kaspar down as the new great heretic hopeless hope for the next conclave now that Cardinal Martini, SJ, of Milan has retired and admitted he has no chance.

Always to be remembered, however is the old Roman maxim that he who enters conclave the presumptive pope leaves as a cardinal. The Holy Ghost is full of beneficial surprises.

God bless you and yours.

39 posted on 06/10/2002 7:33:27 AM PDT by BlackElk
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To: WriteOn
Exactly. Your detailed knowledge of this question is impressive.
40 posted on 06/10/2002 7:36:53 AM PDT by BlackElk
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