Posted on 06/11/2002 12:04:12 PM PDT by RJCogburn
The liberals/socialists utopia defined!
The standard of living isn't defined only in terms of what you can get out of life. You also have to factor in what it is you have to offer. I know a lot of people who would be considered exemplary workers because they work hard at accomplishing and enjoying their work. For some people work is a reward in itself. I find those people to be among the most satisfied in the world enjoying the highest standard of living in the world.
"Central command economies" - Are you referring to "free trade" and "open borders" and "cheap immigrant labor" to keep wages low, and benefit corporate America and the Cato Institute.
Inefficiently? Because we can have the labor performed cheaply abroad?
Hey - how about firing all our soldiers, sailors, Marines and airmen and replace them with foreign labor (i.e., Hessians, French Foreign Legion)?
If we ever get to the point in this country where the majority are salivating over the chance to have eight weeks' vacation every year, it will be all over for the American Dream.
You seem to be insulting out fireman, policemen, emergency workers, military personnel, etc.
You mean like threaten to strike to get more?
And in what occupations are they in (unions, government jobs)?
No, you're making leaps in logic.
I'm saying that your attitude is what has DESTROYED most of Europe, is continuing to keep the third world in the middle ages, and has done a great deal toward lowering our own expectations in this country as well.
So spare me your "government-mandated, Union-thug-enforced" nightmare. Thank the good Lord MOST of us actually WORK for a living, to pay for methadone treatments, or food-stamps, or paid medical leave for slackers like you.
You and people like you are parasites, and the sooner you get it through your head that the PRODUCERS of this nation aren't going to let the likes of you turn this place into the hell-hole that is the Swedish economy, the sooner you can start packing your bags to leave.
All types of careers. My wife for instance loves her job. Can't keep her from it. Her attitude and work ethic coupled with her salary gives her a HIGH standard of living. You know, that quality of life thing. Loving family. Comfortable home. Reliable transportation. Good health. Why do you have such a hard time understanding the concept of a good life?
When I worked for a construction company years ago as a newly-fledged engineer, I found that when we were on UNION jobs, you had a couple of guys that actually did any work, and four or five who stood around drinking water, smoking cigarettes and talking about how bad things were here, and what needed to change. They just TALKED about job conditions, they didn't actually do a job.
If those people are your heroes, it is no surprise that you have such a ****ed-up view of how things really work.
Unions are about dead in this country, because their jig is simply up. People know better now, and they know they don't have to pay a bunch of gangsters outrageous amounts of money to bribe Democrat politicians to "fix" things where they are paid grudgingly by employers who look for every excuse to get rid of them.
They've found that if they actually WORK, they will be paid for the fruits of their labors.
But people like you have only one function in life: Whining, b*tching and complaining.
If you actually ever hit a stroke one day in your life, you might begin to see just a glimpse of what this nation and its wonderful system can do for the individual.
But that won't sit well with your Leftist master-puppeteers, so I doubt it's ever going to come to pass.
Illbay, let me pose a question: What do you consider appropriate time off? Obviously, you seem to think that eight weeks' vacation is too much. One of my former bosses believed that working any less than 75 hours per week was criminal. G-d forbid I take Sundays off. But I digress... Let's re-cast your quote.
If we ever get to the point in this country where the majority are salivating over the chance to have a merely 40 hour workweek, it will be all over for the American Dream.
Certainly the terms of vacation, sick time, salary, etc. are to be negotiated between the employer and employee, or the employee's agent (read union).
I firmly believe that one should work to live, and not live to work. It's healthier. Don't disparage those who wish to work less - we wouldn't have any automation, no computers, etc. without someone asking, "Can I do this any easier?"
No, I think that government-mandated eight weeks' vacation, and a work-force so fixated on the VACATION, and SICK LEAVE and MANDATED PAID TIME OFF that it loses sight of what work is about, and the fruits thereof, is simply the recipe for disaster.
If you have a bad boss, then leave the company. If the economy is too bad to do that, in your estimation, then that's your decision.
No one has complete control of every aspect of their lives. Anyone who has been struck by an automobile running a red light can tell you that. INEVITABLY it comes down to making decisions based on what reality is, and trying to be smart about things.
This notion that the government can come in, and make it "all better" for the poor, long-suffering worker, is just full of sh*t.
It's like the corollary, everyone slamming HMOs and the like because they are too reluctant to pay every frickin' claim that comes down the pike.
So the ultimate solution is: Let the government take it over.
And THEN, you'll have the government refusing to pay every frickin' claim that comes down the pike, except in response to "consumer" complaints you'll simply have Democrat polticians opine that we're simply not being taxed enough to pay for everything, and raise the marginal tax rate from 95% to 97% as a "solution."
That's the way it works with government mandates. D*mn the consequences, there's always an election no later than two years off.
Actually, in my experience your earlier comment is true regardless of whether or not an employee is productive... Employees are seen as a liability, not an asset, by the number-crunching B-school managers.
where they are paid grudgingly by employers who look for every excuse to get rid of them.
But NO ONE that I know of who's worth a d*mn uses "office automation" as an excuse to "work less."
Rather, we WORK the same way as our grandparents did: ALL OUT. But now, we simply accomplish more in the same number of hours.
This is all so sad, that you actually think this way. You need deprogramming, BADLY.
No, I think that government-mandated eight weeks' vacation, and a work-force so fixated on the VACATION, and SICK LEAVE and MANDATED PAID TIME OFF that it loses sight of what work is about, and the fruits thereof, is simply the recipe for disaster.
I agree with you on the government mandates - government shouldn't butt into the employer-employee contract. On the other hand, if the employees are motivated, then they will do their duties in as efficient a manner as possible so as to get to the time off as soon as possible. As an example, I offer a physician seeing as many patients as possible in the morning, so as to play golf in the afternoon.
If you have a bad boss, then leave the company. If the economy is too bad to do that, in your estimation, then that's your decision.
Oh, I left, and she was pissed. Now I'm earning twice as much doing less than half. It's still not enough, though. ;-)
This notion that the government can come in, and make it "all better" for the poor, long-suffering worker, is just full of sh*t.
Hear, hear!
Wrong. LABOR COSTS are a liability, and when they are not offset by corresponding employee PRODUCTION, they equate to a LOSS.
You have to set the one against the other. The BIGGEST SINGLE EXPENSE in running a business is labor. Once you hire someone, you have to pay him, come h*ll or high water.
And IF that someone isn't productive, your money is flying out the window.
And I will tell you, from experience, that those employees who waste time standing around TALKING about how bad things are, instead of doing their d*mn jobs, that employer--who will be making his payroll that week, under penalty of law--is just screwed.
Let me give you a direct example from my work. I design and test fuel cell electrodes, and I have computer-controlled electrical loads attached to these cells. The computer sets the current and logs the potential. I can run eight cells at a time, for the testing cycle which lasts approximately nine hours. During those nine hours, after cleanup and so forth, I've usually got plenty of time to study the data from the last batch of cells. To all appearances, it looks like I "work" two hours a day.
If I had to manually control the cells, I could do two, maybe three. I'd look a lot busier, though, and would never get to review my results...
I suppose that the ideal "hard worker" would set up eight cells, buy another cycler and set up eight more, and so forth until they're doing nothing other than setting up and tearing down cells. We can have interns do that. It irritates the heck out of me when my boss comes to my desk daily, no, hourly, and wants to know why I'm not in the lab, when I've already completed that day's grunt work. (I explain every time, but he never seems to get it...)
This is all so sad, that you actually think this way. You need deprogramming, BADLY.
Sigh. What's sad is that it seem like you'd want 365 days per year of 14 hour per day work. What's the point of earning the fruits of those labors if one never gets a chance to eat them? I'm glad I don't work for you.
However, if you feel your only recourse is to strike, go for it. I certainly won't stand in your way. Of course, you always run the risk of finding out that your contribution isn't actually that indispensible...
Yeah. When I worked at TRW there was a guy who was a total wizard at writing defense contract proposals. He got six months vacation. Of course, the other six months he worked 12+ hour days.
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