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The World s Poor Lose a Friend
Future of Freedom Foundation ^ | June, 2002 | Sheldon Richman

Posted on 06/11/2002 12:04:12 PM PDT by RJCogburn

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To: FreePaul
The United States has a constitution. It specifically states the power of Government. Anything our Government does that is not permitted by the Constitution is excessive or illegal.

To some degree I agree with you.

But you have touted the non-governmental interference, free trade system that makes a country flourish.

Which countries are these?

61 posted on 06/12/2002 7:30:12 AM PDT by Tuco-bad
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To: Tuco-bad
BTW - The typical European worker gets around 8 weeks vacation, not a bad "standard of living".

In the United States, you can become an independent contractor and take as many weeks off as you want. The IRS may hate it, but it is still legal.

There is nothing holy about a "job" - it is simply a outdated custom, a pseudo-guarantee of security in return for loyalty. Put more simply, a job is just contract employment on terms exceptionally favorable to the employer.

62 posted on 06/12/2002 7:40:53 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves
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To: Mr. Jeeves
In the United States, you can become an independent contractor and take as many weeks off as you want

And if you cannot find another job, you can then take the rest of your life off.

63 posted on 06/12/2002 8:33:29 AM PDT by Tuco-bad
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To: Tuco-bad
You seem to imply that mere "citizenship," which is not earned but simply bestowed at birth in most cases, somehow "entitles" you to the wealth produced by others.

I find it significant that at the founding of this nation, full "citizenship" (meaning the right to vote and hold office) was limited to "freeholders," or those who owned land clear of debt. These were the PRODUCERS of that time.

Over the years, political demagogues desiring to create voting constituencies for themselves watered this down until now anyone who is able to breathe (even if a respirator is needed) can vote. Voting is considered a sacred RIGHT, not a privilege, and the spectacle in Florida in November 2000 showed the ultimate folly: Voting is a right EVEN if you don't do it correctly.

Your attitude is typical of our times. You see yourself and everyone else as "deserving" of the fruits of others' labors, simply because you exist. Employers are "obligated" to give you eight weeks of paid vacation, because it's "only right," not because you are worth even two hours of it.

At this time, fortunately, your attitude is not the prevalent one. There are still enough people who understand that the ONLY way you achieve anything is by DOING it, not by having it handed to you. As my father always said "Gee, the harder I work, the luckier I get!"

But should the day come when the MAJORITY of people think as you do, then we will have that hell-hole that Europe already wallows in, and we will have lost our soul.

64 posted on 06/12/2002 9:06:45 AM PDT by Illbay
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To: Tuco-bad
Since I don't look at people as "groups", as you do, this question is meaningless.

Firefighters and policemen each may have interesting reasons why they prefer to do what they do, but it should be clear even to someone as purblind as yourself, that they didn't get into for the money.

Therefore, they desire other "rewards." That is their right. But because they are doing what they are doing does not entitle them to increasing amounts of the fruits of others' labors, beyond what our free market society has determined they are worth.

65 posted on 06/12/2002 9:09:17 AM PDT by Illbay
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To: Mr. Jeeves
You got that right. When I lost my last "real" job because of the complex politics inherent in a "beltway-bandit" consulting firm that makes its living off the public purse, I decided I would never work for an "employer" again. I was scared to death because I had been fed the same pablum that Tuco-Bad swallows so readily.

What I found out was the dirty little secret: Get the middle man (the employer) out of the equation and your way is clear.

This isn't for everybody, because not everybody wants the hassles involved. You have to juggle a lot of balls, rather than sit doing the same thing every day.

But the rewards, direct and indirect, are tremendous.

Those with Tuco-Bad's philosophy believe they are owed a certain level of comfort and needs met by virtue of birth. If we are not careful as a nation, we will become the dismal, dank swamp that Europe has become.

66 posted on 06/12/2002 9:16:46 AM PDT by Illbay
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To: Illbay
But should the day come when the MAJORITY of people think as you do, then we will have that hell-hole that Europe already wallows in, and we will have lost our soul.

Before long you might believe you're in a hell-hole if you lose and cannot find another "consulting" (i.e., temp job) position.

67 posted on 06/12/2002 9:39:26 AM PDT by Tuco-bad
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To: Illbay
But because they are doing what they are doing does not entitle them to increasing amounts of the fruits of others' labors, beyond what our free market society has determined they are worth.

The unions (firefighters, policemen) determine what they are worth.

68 posted on 06/12/2002 9:40:51 AM PDT by Tuco-bad
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To: Tuco-bad
And if you cannot find another job, you can then take the rest of your life off.

And if you cannot find work (not a "job") it is entirely your own fault.

69 posted on 06/12/2002 11:30:59 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves
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To: Mr. Jeeves
And if you cannot find work (not a "job") it is entirely your own fault.

Not if corporate America floods the job market, including the IT and the engineering field, with immigrant labor.

BTW - One of the causes of 911 - think "open borders".

70 posted on 06/12/2002 11:33:46 AM PDT by Tuco-bad
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To: Tuco-bad
"Unions" don't "determine what they're worth." Unions NEGOTIATE.

If it were up to a UNION, every union thug, er, "employee" would be pulling down 1.2 Billion bucks a year.

71 posted on 06/12/2002 11:49:27 AM PDT by Illbay
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To: Illbay
"Unions" don't "determine what they're worth." Unions NEGOTIATE.

If a public employee union (i.e., teacher, police, firefighter), from a position of GREAT strength.

72 posted on 06/12/2002 11:52:41 AM PDT by Tuco-bad
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To: Tuco-bad
I will never be without a job, because I'm self-employed. I'd have to fire myself, and I simply don't feel like doing so right now.

Now, if you mean "the jobs could be hard to find," that may be. But if it comes to that then ALL of us will be in the same boat, so all things considered I'd rather be my own boss, thanks very much.

BTW, I've noticed that people who envy me, or express a wish they could do like I am doing, invariably say they don't because of "security" (which is, of course, non-existent).

What they REALLY mean is "nah, then I might have to start actually WORKING..."

73 posted on 06/12/2002 12:19:58 PM PDT by Illbay
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To: Illbay
I will never be without a job, because I'm self-employed. I'd have to fire myself, and I simply don't feel like doing so right now.

If no one wants your services, you are FIRED!

BTW, I've noticed that people who envy me, or express a wish they could do like I am doing, invariably say they don't because of "security" (which is, of course, non-existent).

They're really laughing at you behind your back because you can't find a permanent job, and you are merely a temporary worker.

Hate to be so blunt, but these are the facts.

74 posted on 06/12/2002 12:24:47 PM PDT by Tuco-bad
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To: Tuco-bad
If no one wants your services, you are FIRED!

So, your solution is to FORCE someone to hire me? Is that what I'm hearing from you? (If so, I can't say I'm surprised given your track record here on FR).

75 posted on 06/12/2002 12:26:15 PM PDT by Illbay
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To: Tuco-bad
I'm no more a "temporary worker" than Bill Gates. In fact, I have even MORE power than Bill Gates: He has to answer to stockholders. I am the only stockholder in my firm.
76 posted on 06/12/2002 12:27:35 PM PDT by Illbay
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To: Tuco-bad
Boeing is outsourcing their commercial engineering to Russia, financial companies (i.e., Merrill Lynch, Bear Sterns), are outsourcing their IT work to India, etc.

Then it's time to look for something we can do better than they can in India or Russia. If we can't, and we price ourselves out of the market, then we deserve to lose.

77 posted on 06/12/2002 12:32:54 PM PDT by jejones
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To: Illbay
I'm no more a "temporary worker" than Bill Gates. In fact, I have even MORE power than Bill Gates: He has to answer to stockholders. I am the only stockholder in my firm.

And you don't worry where you next job is coming from, especially with the huge number of new immigrants (some terrorists) willing do do your job at a much cheaper price?

78 posted on 06/12/2002 12:34:29 PM PDT by Tuco-bad
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To: jejones
Then it's time to look for something we can do better than they can in India or Russia. If we can't, and we price ourselves out of the market, then we deserve to lose.

All we have to do is cut our wages by 75% to be competitive.

79 posted on 06/12/2002 12:36:08 PM PDT by Tuco-bad
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To: Illbay
So, your solution is to FORCE someone to hire me?

No I'm merely saying that you could be out of work in the near future with no hope of gainful employment.

80 posted on 06/12/2002 12:37:36 PM PDT by Tuco-bad
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