Posted on 06/18/2002 6:07:04 AM PDT by jordan8
Who will be left to defend them? As I keep posting over and Over and Over again, and will continue to post, The mindset these day's "IF YOU SUPPORT THE CONSTITUTION, You're with the terrorist". Scary part is, there is NO definition of a "terrorist". It could be anyone that questions the RNC or the DNC. Forget it.... This is looking very dismal I fear!
If you don't toe the line with one of the party's in power, and Dare to speak as an individual you're a "nut ball".... It's a sad day indeed.
Can you imagine the dilemma I face from time to time? One of my closest childhood friends took a look at my column on reparations, and asked me, "How could you even think about agreeing with those white, racist, XXXXXXX's?" He then began to use plenty of other colorful metaphors to describe those of us on the Right. He stopped short of calling me an Uncle Tom or an Oreo, but I knew where he stood. I refuse to toe the line, therefore I'm persona non grata. (Mind you, he lives in upstate New York, and worships the ground Hillary walks on.)
"The Constitution itself never yields to treaty or enactment; it neither changes with time, nor does it in theory bend to the force of circumstances." - Ex parte Milligan, 4 Wall. 2, 120
To me, 9/11 was every bit as horrible as Pearl Harbor, but the reaction from our leaders was so different.
Not a fan of FDR, but can you imagine soon after Pearl Harbor, if FDR went barefooted to a Japanese temple (I am not sure what religion the majority of Japanese are, but just as a illustration) and spoke of being tolerant and understanding to the Japanese people. Then there came a flurry of 'tolerance-speak', and we were told not to be angry with the Japanese people, it was just the leaders and military that caused this problem. Then the AG make tolerance speeches and then threats to American citizens if they were not 'tolerant'. What if the new media had daily shown isolated (and I believe that) cases of 'intolerance' and showed the same picture of a temple with a car driven into it and a temple with a broken window and denounced it as barbaric, etc. What if on any given day in the major newspapers, there were editorials and letters to the editor concerning the horrible, intolerant Americans and their attitude toward the Japanese.
On top of that, our President refused to close the borders or even protect it, suppose the head of the INS made speeches to the border patrol to 'shut up and live with it'.
If these things had happened, America would not have had the will to win the war and I do not believe we have the will to win this war against terrorism.
We gave away so many of our rights to stop drugs. I heard the same rhetoric regarding this. "If it will save one child from drugs, they can search my car, etc.", and look at how they have used and abused this. We have a law enforcement agency that is a rural drug enforcement agency. I am not sure of the official name, but they can stop you anytime and search your car. They stopped my son coming home from work late one night, and asked to search his car. He asked them why and they said drugs. When he asked what would happen if he said no, they said they would impound his car and search it anyway. Now anyone with an ounce of sense knows if you make these guys angry, they are going to 'find' something. They accused him of making drugs since his hands were stained - his is a mechanic!!!!!! He chose the better part of valor and let them search and they let him go - without an apology.
How does one go about determining who is a terrorist and who isn't?
I fear that these people you wish to get thru to will keep their fingers in their ear's (that IS of course until it happens to them or their family) Then the shock of it all will be far to real for them.
I see People every day on these threads, DEMANDING we GIVE up our liberty's, I don't see much of an Apology from them either. I see Insults hurled, Nastiness, and down right accused of being "Anti-American" if you do not assimilate to the NEW AMERICA. Your post was right on the Mark. I'm sure you'll get the typical excuses how its "for the better"
And here's the Ben Franklin quote a few of you were trying to nail down... I agree, it's a great one.
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.This link is pretty interesting too...
- Ben Frankin
"The Constitution itself never yields to treaty or enactment; it neither changes with time, nor does it in theory bend to the force of circumstances." - Ex parte Milligan, 4 Wall. 2, 120
Public Laws are enactments.. are they NOT?
God Grants Rights, NOT Government, Its not to the Interpretation of the courts what RIGHTS are, you however think our rights are granted by the powers that be and they have the "RIGHT and ABILITY" to revoke them for any "AMERICAN CITIZEN" when ever they DEEM necessary. THIS IS not at all how I read the Constitution, perhaps that is why we don't and never will agree nor see eye to eye on the matter.
While I can appreciate Neal's POV, I also understand that the world underwent a sea change last September 11th. We need new rules for dealing with grave threats to our nation. If that means classifying Jose Padilla as a combatant and holding him indefinitely, so be it.
IMO, the rule of law and individual rights are intended for those who understand them, respect them and abide by them. The history of Al Qaeda and its members demonsrates a total disregard for the rule of law, civil liberties and individual rights. When Jose joined Al Qaeda, he effectively declared war on his own country. Now, he seeks refuge in the Bill of Rights, as a mechanism for slowing down the judicial process, much as the lawyers for John Walker Lindh and Richard Reid are attempting to do. In the cases of Lindh and Padilla, we should initiate proceedings to strip them of their citizenship, then let them see what it's like to have no rights. They deserve nothing less....
The Treason Trial of Aaron Burr
by Douglas Linder (c) 2001
Never has an American trial produced such an impressive set of key players:
The defendant--Aaron Burr, founding father, Vice President (and slayer of Alexander Hamilton in their famous duel three years earlier); The trial judge--John Marshall, Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court (and the most important justice in history);
The force behind the prosecution-- Thomas Jefferson, author of the Declaration of Independence, President of the United States; Defense attorneys--Edmund Randolph and Luther Martin, both delegates to the Constitutional Convention and among the most prominent men of the day; Prosecutors-- Charles Lee, former Attorney General, and William Wirt, future presidential candidate.
Defense attorneys--Edmund Randolph and Luther Martin, both delegates to the Constitutional Convention and among the most prominent men of the day;
Exactly my point Cougar.. you're not arguing the CONSTITUTION, you give me case points and "public laws" you are not giving me the constitution. I am arguing the Constitution. I'm not trying to be testy or snotty about it just simply laying out things as I see them.
Please also note that just because something is "LAW" doesn't make it right, (Examples.. "Law's" in Germany in WWII; Abortion; Blue law's (witch in the State of MA, City of Boston it clearly states it's ILLEGAL TO take a Bath on Sundays) It was put on the books along with other "public blue laws." Does it make them right? NO, Gives more power to the Government to charge you with a crime, even if its absurd or against the constitution. )
Which is exactly my point!! Where does it end, If I myself don't know my own RIGHTS and have to rely on a person in a black robe to declare what my rights are, I'm not worthy or responsible enough to exercise FREEDOM or Liberty in the true sense of the word. That is my argument. I'm Sorry I didn't mean any offense,however at times I pull my hair out at this justification of CLEAR UNCONSTITUTIONAL LAW that is running rampant this this great country
what? you mean follow the LAW? Get outa here, who woulda thunk.. Its the year 2002, where have you been we are at WAR!!! Don't you know the accused will use the Constitution as a "LOOP HOLE" we must stop that at all cost, Ta heck with the founding document, they were rantings of mad men who defied a king... They refused to assimilate to the KING for their own safety.... < ranting off/>
Even typing that sarcastically, makes me gag!! God Help this Nation!!
PS, Awesome Link, I've had that trials page on my favorites for long time, Great that you posted the link for those that can have some fascinating reading!! :)
Hardly. SCOTUS recognised that citizens of the United States can be classified as enemy combatants. International Law recognises that enemy combatants can be held for the duration of hostilities. The Geneva Convention acknowledges the fact that terrorists, saboteurs, can be held incommunicado for the duration.
Habeus corpus, in the case of any of these three assholes, has not been suspended. That means he can petition for judicial review and perhaps you guys will get your wish. He'll be charged, released on bond and who knows where we go from there?
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