Drunken Husband Indicted As Complicit In Hayman CO Fire; NOW Applauds

Toogood Reports ^ | June 19, 2002 | Gerald L. Rowles, Ph.D.

[CaptRon]

" 'It's almost a little more understandable,' Carol Simone said. 'Not forgivable, but more understandable than somebody who just wanted to heat up some hot dogs or something.' "

OK. Let me see if I get this straight. A hungry person starts
a file to cook some food. Not reasonable or understandable.

A disheartened woman who is upset about her marriage
goes into the woods to burn a letter. Completely reasonable
and understandable.

Do I have that right?

[mhking]

Did she need 42 gallons of gasoline to prime it?

Nope -- just three gallons of liquid oxygen...

[Restorer]

Can someone please explain to me, how burning a letter in a fire ring can start a massive conflagration? We're talking 1, maybe 2 sheets of paper, right? Sounds fishy to me.

Very possible. Under the right conditions, even a Coke bottle focusing the sun's rays has been known to start a massive fire. The problem is that the fire doesn't stay small. Once it escaped the fire ring, she would have had literally only a few seconds to contain it.

Imagine a spark igniting a pool of gasoline. The size of the spark has no correlation to the intensity of the resulting fire.

I do have a problem with people referring to her as intentionally starting this huge forest fire. Presumably she intentionally started a very small fire which then got out of hand. There is a difference.

Although it doesn't say much for her intelligence. Why couldn't she burn the letter in her fireplace?

[another cricket]

Isn't there a law that reads if someone death is caused during the commission of a felony you are charged with felony murder?

I seem to remember a case where two guys held up a store, one was shot to death and the other was charged with murder even though he was not the one who shot him.

The basis of the law being that if you had not been committing a criminal act the death would not have occurred.

Arson is, I believe, a felony.

a.cricket

[CaptRon]

Oops. "file" = "fire"

[TeleStraightShooter]

Try this link
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20020619-84238364.htm

"...but a senior special agent "concluded that the fire was deliberately set and had been staged to look like an escaped campfire.".....

[SGCOS]

With all the aggravation and distress this has caused, there's more.

A heavy equipment shop in Omaha offered to send a couple of HUGE bulldozers to help with the fire break lines.

The Forest Service declined, saying it can't accept donations and there is no money to pay him.

The owner suggested that when they have the money, give it to charity. Forest Service says it can't.

The Russians offered to send their 'Ilyusion' a water plane 10 times bigger than the C130 planes we're using now Forest Service says "no, we don't need it."

[Two in the Hat]

Let us not forget that a 3 man crew of a C-130 fire fighting plane were killed fighting this fire so 30 years is beginning to look about right. Does anyone really believe the burning a letter story? Sounds like a load of crap to me.

[Stand Watch Listen]

Can someone please explain to me, how burning a letter in a fire ring can start a massive conflagration?

FYI...reply #45 above

[CaptRon]

She's a forest ranger fercryinoutloud, shouldn't she have been trained to contain small fires?

Sorry, as a former volunteer fireman with 20 years service, this ain't cutting it.

[Carolina]

The investigators found underbrush piled outside the fire ring. They're not even sure if the letter was burned inside the fire ring.

[TeleStraightShooter]

Try this link
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20020619-84238364.htm

"...but a senior special agent "concluded that the fire was deliberately set and had been staged to look like an escaped campfire.".....

[Carolina]

Forest Service says it can't.

What is their justification?

[white trash redneck]

One point that seems to have been overlooked here is that this woman didn't just start a fire - she tried to direct blame at another, randomly chosen, innocent person. Ranger Barton initially reported that she had seen a gold minivan driving away from the site of the fire, and she even gave a license number to the investigators. Fortunately for all involved, her story smelled fishy, and the poor chump she tried to hand must have had a good alibi. However, it could very easily have turned out differently. Think of the feds' customary investigatory incompetence (cfnot connecting the dots before 9-11; Wen Ho Lee) and add to that the feds' reluctance to assign blame to one of their own - where discipline usually consists of a few days paid leave - i.e.vacation - followed by a promotion (cfthe burn that the Forest Service started near Los Alamos in 2000; Lon Hoiuchi and the rest of the feds at Ruby Ridge). I find it very easy to imagine that if maybe a different investigator had been assigned to this fire, they would be charging that poor schmoe in the minivan with setting the fire, and he'd be out thousands in legal fees, not to mention the possibility of jail and fines. Isn't there something in the 10 Commandments about bearing false witness?

I haven't seen this in the papers, but on the radio yesterday I listened to a Forest Service spokescritter saying something to the effect that the FS should be commended for coming clean about Barton! What a country - the feds think they deserve a pat on the back for simple honesty.

[Kermit]

She lied to the first investigators and attempted to pin the blame on innocent people. Now, it turns out that her second story is a lie and she tried to shift blame onto her husband. She's only recanted her lies, when presented with inconvertible proof that she was lying. Some good person!!

[wireplay]

I go to the briefings every night and there is more disinformation out there than information.

The forest service has gotten every resource they have asked for, bulldozers are not useful everywhere here: we have steep, rocky terrain that you can't put a bulldozer on, and the fire is so intense it can easily cross 200+ yards.

Please don't second-guess their efforts: these guys are very professional and are working day and night trying to contain this blaze.

[Stand Watch Listen]

Let us not forget that a 3 man crew of a C-130 fire fighting plane were killed fighting this fire....

No, that accident was with a forest fire in California. The C-130A tanker's left wing broke off

[SGCOS]

Forest Service says it can't.

What is their justification?

Don't know. Dumb ass regulations I suppose.

But if you have 1500 VOLUNTEER firefighters fighting this dang fire, isn't that a donation?