Mexico-Brazil Alignment: Fox's New Foreign Policy Goal

Strategic Forecasting ^ | 5-25-2003 | Stratfor.com

[Cacique]

I think I have you beat by about 3 years.

Whether either one of us is here or not is not the point. My father fought his battles not necessarily because he was going to see the effects of his struggles, but because he wanted to leave it a better place for his progeny.

The problem with social security is not so much demographics as it is with the system of welfare itself. I know we don't think of social security as welfare but that is precisely what it has become.

as to the issue of longevity. Consider this, the lifespan of most human beings in western countries has increased by over twenty years in the last half century. When social security was initiated most people did not live long enough to collect it. We may both live to be 150 years old if the pace of medical advances continues. At the very least we may both live into mid-century. The number of centenarians has been on the increase for some time now. Considering that as we speak Bob Hope celebrates his century it may not be too far fetched to think that we'll bopth be around.

We could easily solve the social security problem by delaying retirement or eliminating it alltogether. Old age need not be a dtriment to being productive. Our greatest president Ronald Reagan was first elected to the oval office at the age of 70.

[Scenic Sounds]

I think I have you beat by about 3 years.

Well, that's a game I hope you keep "winning"! ;-)

[Black Agnes]

ping.

[Cincinatus' Wife]

Thanks for the LINK. An interesting article.

[FITZ]

"the real reason we're allowing so many young folks to immigrate illegally into this country is because they're gonna be necessary to solve our demographic problems with Social Security."

Which doesn't make sense because the illegals need health care and will also retire and need to be supported. Also Fox is working out a deal so that people living in Mexico will be covered under USA's social security.

[Scenic Sounds]

Which doesn't make sense because the illegals need health care and will also retire and need to be supported.

Yeah, that's correct, but I think that's why the fella was talking about young illegal immigrants. The important thing is when they are in the labor force before they retire. And, please understand that I'm not endorsing this idea, I'm just passing it along as food for thought.

Also Fox is working out a deal so that people living in Mexico will be covered under USA's social security.

Well, I'm sure you know that there are already a large number of retired Americans living in Mexico and receiving Social Security. I don't know enough about Fox's suggestion to comment on it, but I wouldn't be surprised to find him favoring a proposal which increases the amount of dollars entering his country. It's his job to make those kind of proposals. It's our job to decide whether or not his proposals make sense for us. And we're usually pretty good at that.

[Black Agnes]

The average illegal consumes ~$55K more per life time in social services than they ever pay in. Multiply that times 10M+ illegals. We can't afford them. They don't earn enough to support themselves, much less our elderly. Most of the illegals in my neighborhood double dip. They earn cash under the table (from which no SS or income taxes are paid btw) and then turn around and collect welfare, food stamps, WIC, AFDC,...If illegals were scientists and doctors and the like your argument would make sense. Unfortunately they're unskilled and illiterate. We have enough of those already, we don't need all of central and south Americas also.

[Scenic Sounds]

I hear you. And I have to honestly tell you that I am woefully ignorant of the figures involved in all this.

And, beyond any figures, I think we all have an interest in seeing to it that our laws (including our immigraion laws) are properly enforced, don't we?

[Black Agnes]

Well, *we* have an interest since we're taxpayers certainly. However, the rats want the voters and the corporatecrats want the cheap labor (that's subsidized by the taxpayers unless you think people can actually *live* on $3-4/hr wages...) The PTB's have *no interest* in enforcing our immigration laws. None. On either side of the aisle.

[FITZ]

We could easily solve the social security problem by delaying retirement or eliminating it alltogether. Old age need not be a dtriment to being productive.

We should eliminate Social Security and the retirement age ---neither makes much sense. My grandfather didn't retire from full-time work until he was 84, people age at such different rates it makes no sense to have one set age and you're better off if you keep on working.

[Clemenza]

Mexicans in Mexico tend to be fairly civil. A general tone among the average poor Cholo in Mexico tends to be ambivanlence and (yes) often disgust with the USA, while making exceptions for the Americans they meet) I have heard (even though my Spanish is not as good as yours) conversations similar to the ones you have discussed and I am NOT pleased.

[Sparta]

Too hell with intervention in North Korea and the Middle East and pissing $15 billion away in Africa, the enemy is already right at our doorstep.

[liberalnot]

mexico, central and south america are going to try the commie thing again.

they lost last time.