Double Or Nothing: Martin Luther's Doctrine of Predestination

VISI.COM ^ | 1997 | Brian G. Mattson

[RnMomof7]

I do not know him..who is he?

[CubicleGuy]

What do you think of Mark Hofman?

I think he's in jail.

[drstevej]

The Mormon Murders: A True Story of Greed, Forgery, Deceit, and Death by Steven Naifeh, Gregory White Smith

or

A Gathering of Saints : A True Story of Money, Murder and Deceit by Robert Lindsey

or

Salamander : The Story of the Mormon Forgery Murders by Linda Sillitoe, Allen Roberst, Allen Dale Roberts

======

First two are out of print but available used on Amazon. Third is in print. An amazing read! Probably not on White Mountain's recommended list!

[drstevej]

True. A plea bargain to avoid an embarassing trial. LDS justice.

[RnMomof7]

I still do not "get it" Is he a criminal? How does he relate to this discussion? Is he an LDS offical or something?

[drstevej]

He murdered one person who figured out the documents were forgeries and was hot on his trail. He himself was injured by another of his own bombs.

Rather than being tried and convicted of murder (what he deserved) the prosecutors (LDS) accepted a plea bargain for man slaughter. Thus no trial, no display of the documents as exhibit A. etc.

Hofman was an accomplished forger. He had the Smithsonian fooled with his forgery of "Oath of a Free Man." They were ready to pay him big bucks. He made the documents in his basement.

One of Hofman's bogus dovcuments purchased by the LDS was the supposed will of Joseph Smith, Jr. designating his son JS III rather than Bringem Young as his successor!

A compelling, tragic and embarassing story depending on your point of view.

[drstevej]

Hofman was a lapsed Mormon who had an interest in LDS history and used his knowledge to give an air of credibility to his documents. He sold them for hundreds of thousands of dollars all told. He was mercenary in his motives.

He was shrewd. He purchased an old paper and Bibles so the paper would be the right vintage. His ink ultimately was his Waterloo. It fooled many but the document experts finally nailed him.

[RnMomof7]

When was this..I think I remember something on CNN or a news station about the forgeries..but the name and actual situation mean nothing to me.

[CubicleGuy]

A plea bargain to avoid an embarassing trial. LDS justice.

Truth be told, I would have preferred the trial, warts and all. But my fellow Latter-day Saints know I'm a little crazy that way.

[drstevej]

A quick google yielded this summary which corrects my memory from reading these books years ago.

[drstevej]

***I would have preferred the trial, warts and all. ***

I commend you Cubicle Guy for wanting a full open accounting. We will see if other LDS Freepers share your quest for an open approach to this tragic episode.

I believe Hofman should have been tried openly and executed!

[RnMomof7]

Yea that is the case I remember..but I connected it with the Smithsonian not the LDS

[White Mountain]

CubicleGuy is doing such a great job with you guys, as you keep trying to change the subject away from his comments on the article, that I will just make one observation:

Your #131: Joseph after Harris lost the first 116 pages was conveniently directed by god to translate a shorter account.

That is God with a capital G, Steve, the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, as you will come to know one day. You really do need to show more reverence and respect.

Joseph translated a longer and more detailed account. The 116 pages was the shorter account, Mormon's abridgment of the same time period.

Because Joseph translated the longer account to replace the lost pages, the Book of Mormon we have today has contributions from more ancient authors, each with his own style of writing and literary devices, much more impossible for a young frontier farmer to fake, having little education and no knowledge beyond the Bible of the ancient Near East or the ancient Americas.

If you are willing to research the matter, Steve, you will find that the only plausible way for the Book of Mormon to come to be is the way Joseph Smith testified that it came to be, by the gift and power of God. And the Holy Spirit so testifies.

[drstevej]

***That is God with a capital G, Steve, the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, as you will come to know one day. You really do need to show more reverence and respect.***

I use God with a capital G when referring to the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Joseph (not Joseph Smith!). I use a small g with the god of Joseph Smith. The god who turns people black so they won't entice those delightsome white folk! Or the god whom Joseph Smith used to whip Emma into line to accept Joseph's harem. or the god who resides near unto Kolob and has multiple wives. etc., etc.

It is precisely because I do revere God and the Lord Jesus Christ that I refuse to accept the LDS impostor!

Hey, White Mountain, where can I buy a Reformed Egyptian grammar? Amazing how Reformed Egyptian looks like the King James English when viewed through a peep stone!

Also, do you share CG's belief that Mark Hofman should have had a public trial (warts and all) rather than the plea bargain deal he got? If the longer manuscript(thanks for the correction on this point) was better why didn't god start with this one in the first place? Seems like that Martin Harris fellow was really a hero, he lost the inferior one so you could have the better one.

[CubicleGuy]

... you keep trying to change the subject away from his comments on the article...

Noticed that, did you? ;-)

[restornu]

I am LMHOROTF hearing these loonies, now I know where a strange question that was asked of came from. It's too much all of the wonderful things to learn and this is the stuff they choose to inquire, they fail to reconize true treasures. You are doing a excellent handeling these Cantaberry Tale bearers!