Posted on 09/06/2001 5:43:56 PM PDT by Utah Girl
Edited on 09/03/2002 4:49:18 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
Mention
(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.com ...
SNERK! You NEVER met my Wife. GRIN!
/john
I have had some wonderful discussions with Mormons, even went to a Promise Keepers event with one that I would definitely call a "born again" Mormon. He was from the St Louis Church of Jesus Christ which is a bit different. They share the Book of Mormon with their larger Salt Lake brothers and sisters, but that is where their acceptance of Smith's writings stop.
Although not a believer in the origins of the Book of Mormon, I find no heresy in it. My struggle with the Mormon church is more with the additional teachings from Pearls of Wisdom and other Smith writings that are not emphasized as much any more but it is my understanding they are still required belief if one wants to climb the church hierarchy.
This is where the belief in becoming a God yourself, having your own planet, and other "interesting" beliefs of Smith are written.
Do you know if the Church of Jesus Christ was formerly the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints? Ooops, nope, they are now the Community Church of Christ. There are some churches that do have their origin from the original Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, most split after the Prophet Joseph Smith was martyred.
And we believe that God revealed those things that are contained in the Pearl of Great Price and Doctrine & Covenants to Joseph Smith. Yes, we do believe in eternal life, if one is worthy, we will live with our spouse for all eternity, creating new spirit children and new worlds. And I think the quote that can sum up our beliefs in becoming a god is "As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be." (President Lorenzo Snow)
How was the Promise Keepers event? I think they are doing a good thing, encouraging men to stay faithful to their wives and children.
I don't believe in luck. I do believe that I have been blessed, though.
"By their fruits, shall ye know them". Is the fruit beneficient or destructive? G-d gave us a clue.
/john
When I lived there from 1980-1, beer could be purchased from the cooler of any convenience store and cigarettes from behind the counter. Unless you were underage, I didn't notice any particular inconvenience in buying either product.
Granted, the stores had a lot more facings of jello than they did of barley pop, but I suppose that reflects the local market. Are you supposed to be able to easily buy a jumbo pack of diapers in the whorehouse neighborhoods which so many of our lamestream media seem to prefer?
As for the percentage of public official which are Mormon, what is this supposed to prove in a state which is 2/3rds Mormon? It would be more appropriate to research the number of public officials in Massachusetts which are not ultraleft extremists when only a slight plurality of the voting populace is.
Hell, I'd move back to Utah in a minute if I could make a damn living there. Mormons have decent values and are a helluva lot more tolerant that the northeast elitist media which tries to paint them otherwise. </font face>
until this recent onslaught, i had thought woodward was merely
brazen and indolent.
he poorly hides his bigotry in second hand heresay.
newsweek religion editor, indeed.
We belive the the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are 3 sperate individuals. We belive that it is correct to reffer to either one individually as God, and to all three collectively as God also because they are equal in power, glory. They are completly united in heart and mind and purpose, so each one would litteraly say and do exactly the same thing that the others would in the same situation. They fulfill different roles that are all focused on the same goal of bringing salvation to us. Given this we have no problem saying that the Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God, but we will not say they are all a single person.
From what I have read about Mormomism is that it is a works based faith.
That is an easy mistake to make, it would be more acurate to call it a 'faith without works is dead' faith. We teach that the grace of Christ saves, but if you have faith in Christ you will obey Him as best we can. Our works never put us in a position where God owes us anything, but if we really do have faith, we will do the works. A person who does good works without faith will be no better off than a person who has no faith and does no works either.
Also, if I believe God to be who he says he is, then I believe him when he said that nothing was to added or taken away from His Word.
I belive God commanded man to not add to or take away from His word, but I don't see that as meaning He can not or will not give us more of His word. We just have no right to alter what he gives us. That verse in Revelations says the same thing as it does in Deu 4:2, but there was a lot more of God's word revealed to man after Deu 4.
I pray you do not feel attacked by my words.
Not at all, I enjoy polite conversations with people of other faiths and I have no doubt that you have faith in Christ and are doing you best to follow Him. God is not done with either of us yet and I hope when we meet after this life we will have reason to rejoice together.
I believe that was the name of the St Louis headquartered "church" that the Mormon I refered to was a member.
Ooops, nope, they are now the Community Church of Christ. There are some churches that do have their origin from the original Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, most split after the Prophet Joseph Smith was martyred.
Your "oops" threw me, but if that is their new name, I wouldn't be surprised. My conversations with him, other than their sharing the Book of Mormon with the LDS church in Salt Lake, made his theology seem quite Christian in all ways. For them to change the name to also sound less "Mormon" would not be surprising.
And we believe that God revealed those things that are contained in the Pearl of Great Price and Doctrine & Covenants to Joseph Smith. Yes, we do believe in eternal life, if one is worthy, we will live with our spouse for all eternity, creating new spirit children and new worlds. And I think the quote that can sum up our beliefs in becoming a god is "As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be." (President Lorenzo Snow)
I do respect your beliefs, but I do believe that we have just hit the nail on the head as to what basically is the core "split" between the Mormon faith and the rest of Christianity.
How was the Promise Keepers event? I think they are doing a good thing, encouraging men to stay faithful to their wives and children.
They are doing a great thing and it needs to continue. They get a lot of bashing from the ultra-fundamentalists for being open to all men who want to spend a weekend getting closer to Jesus, regardless of faith. It's almost like the fundamentalists want men to be carded at the door checking for Mormons, Catholics, Muslims, Hindu's, etc. and tell them they aren't invited.... God bless the Promise Keepers and other preachers of Jesus word to not fall to such a closed membership "let me tell you what's wrong with you" sort of preaching.
The focus is always on family, getting men right with their family and in the right spiritial leadership role that God planned for them. There are so many father-less families out there, it's tragic. The real transferance of PK's message from a once a year "mountain high" experience to a weekly support group in the church is where the real cure is. But PK plays a valuable role.
Count me as an "ultra-fundamentalist", then. Which "Jesus" is PK "getting closer to"? The Masonic Jesus? The liberal Mr. Rogers Jesus? The Mormon Jesus brother of Lucifer?
No thanks.
Well, as a quasi-fundi myself, I wasn't prepared to write a book on it, but you are taking my statement out of context. If sitting next to non-Christians who have come to hear the message of our Savior is being preached the "Masonic, Mr Rogers, Mormon Jesus" then you are of the fundi-sect that I speak of ...
Don't misconstrue my message, or the open door of PK, to be anything other than preaching that there is only one salvation thru Jesus. But also don't misconstrue this open door to be something "unitarian" like, accepting all faiths as many paths to salvation.
Because there is no Jesus but the real Jesus being preached at PK, it's just that too many people don't like sharing Him with those that don't yet know him and follow another path ...
Apparently the right way for them is that you must accept the path first, then you find out who's leading and why you're on it! Thank goodness all churches are not that way!
The ultra-fundi's want preaching to be very narrow, to point out what is wrong with everyone in the pews that is NOT following Jesus and Him alone ... that is a good message, but that is for the church on Sunday. PK's message is to preach Jesus to all, to preach His binding message of family values, the mens' role, against pornography, to be good providers, to protect our children, to stand against racism, etc. If this "family value" is not "Sunday" enough for you, that is your choice. But you will not find any "Mr Rogers" or "Masonic Jesus" preached at PK ... if you ever attended an event you would know that.
Thank God that our Savior was not so closed minded, that He was willing to reach out to prostitutes, sorcerers, tax-collectors, the physically dead, the spiritually dead, Samaritans, and even "ulta-fundi's" (of course we called them Sadducees and Pharisies back then ..;-)
Agthorn: I do respect your beliefs, but I do believe that we have just hit the nail on the head as to what basically is the core "split" between the Mormon faith and the rest of Christianity.
Utah Girl,
1. Is Joseph Smith now a god? If so, how do you know?
2. Did Joseph Smith lead a sinless life like Christ did? Is Joseph Smith greater than Jesus Christ? By what authority and power does anyone forgive sins other than that which is confessed through Jesus Christ?
3. Is eternal only for those who are "worthy"? If man can become worthy on his own, why did God send his only Son Jesus Christ to be the perfect sacrifice for the sins of the world. Isn't it in fact true that "none are worthy", but need to accept Christ as their personal savior in order to have Christ be their perfect 'sin offering'? Isn't it true that only Christ was worthy?
4. Do you really believe a man can become a god and that God was once a man? If God was once a man, who or what created him? Who was the first god?
But does the ongoing, for lack of a better word, sum, of your works and morally clean living and obedience enable you to enter into the highest level of Heaven, the Celestial Kingdom, where God and Jesus will ultimately reside? What are the requirements for entry into the Celestial Kingdom? If those requirements are not met, then what happens? Do you go to the Terrestial Kingdom, and if so, will Jesus be in the Terrestial Kingdom?
What I'm trying to reconcile are Jesus's own words in John 14:3 "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you unto Myself, that where I am, there you may be also". The quest for eternal life and Heaven for me boils down to this, - where will Jesus be, and how can I join Him? What is required of me to spend eternity with Him who gave all for me? LDS membership? Being baptised? Living in obedience to the Word of Wisdom? Having my marriage sealed in a temple?
I know that God doesn't "owe" us anything because of anything we do. I have a need in my life to know what is required for me to spend eternity with Jesus. After all, it's only eternal life that hangs in the balance.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.