Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The real news is Mexico's increasing influence
The Miami Herald ^ | Sept 9, 2001 | Andres Oppenheimer

Posted on 09/09/2001 10:47:01 AM PDT by Luis Gonzalez

While the headlines about Mexican President Vicente Fox's visit to the United States last week focused on immigration talks, they may have missed the most important point: the new U.S. ``special relationship'' with Mexico will have a major impact on U.S. foreign policy and hemispheric affairs.

I didn't see the faces of the ambassadors of Great Britain, Canada and China when President Bush proclaimed on Wednesday that ``the United States has no more important relationship in the world than the one we have with Mexico.'' But I can't imagine their being too happy about it.

And I didn't see the faces of the scores of U.S. State Department officials who spent their careers studying Russian and Chinese in hopes of climbing the diplomatic ladder. Many of them must be wondering whether they shouldn't have studied Spanish instead, which until recently was a bad career move unless you wanted to be U.S. consul in Tegucigalpa.

Skeptics may think that Bush's statement was pure rhetoric, and that he was pandering to Mexico because his pollsters are telling him that he will need 40 percent of the Hispanic vote -- which traditionally goes Democratic -- if he wants to be reelected.

Not so. Much to the dismay of the traditional U.S. foreign policy establishment, no country in the world has a greater impact on daily life in America than Mexico, whether you are talking about immigration, drugs, the environment, or -- increasingly -- domestic politics.

And since the 1994 free-trade agreement between the United States, Canada and Mexico, Mexico has become a key U.S. trade partner. Mexico today buys more U.S. goods than France, Germany, Spain and Italy together.

WHAT WILL CHANGE

So what will change with the new U.S.-Mexico ``special relationship''? Among the things I heard last week in the corridors of The Herald's Conference of the Americas, which was attended by Fox, eight Latin American foreign ministers and the top U.S. officials in charge of Latin American affairs:



TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS:
Repost from earlier today.
1 posted on 09/09/2001 10:47:01 AM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (Blue3711@aol.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Luis Gonzalez
To: Luis Gonzalez

Despite the stereotypes perpetuated by the media, bigots and tourists seeing the more seamy side of Mexico, the Mexican people are forward-thinking, more affluent than they are portrayed in the media and very industrious and energetic. They may nap in the afternoon but they are up before the crack of dawn. In the past few decades, their culture while still rooted in Spain has become Americanized.

The American unions have reason to fear as their own members in comparison with typical Mexican workers are lazy, argumentative and expensive. Combined with Canada (minus French-loving Quebec, natch), the US and Mexico would be a great trading bloc. Our big mutual concern in terms of regional security should be the emerging relationship of Venezuala with China and the liberation of Cuba. We should keep our eyes on Venuzuala and determine if they and their pals in China are financing Castro and other terrorists and "revolutionaries" in the less stable Latin American countries and South Mexico.

2 Posted on 09/09/2001 07:27:08 PDT by jhofmann
[ Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | Top | Last ]

2 posted on 09/09/2001 10:50:01 AM PDT by Luis Gonzalez
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Luis Gonzalez
Could you a least provide a url for the original thread? Helps with the community spirit, you know.
3 posted on 09/09/2001 11:50:14 AM PDT by gcruse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Luis Gonzalez
I'm not trying to be argumenative,but can you please explain how the Mexicans culture has become more americanized? I live on the Gulf Coast.The stores ,newspapers here all celebrate the mexican holidays.The Houston Chronicle had an article on Cinco De Maya. Not one word in reference on the day the Alamo fell.Everywhere you look, mexican shops ,stores ,communities, etc. When they come here ,they bring Mexico with them.WE are expected to assimilate in to their culture.Even the K-Mart a block from my home ,plays Mexican music over the pa system now.You can't find a job in this area unless you are bilingual.The clothing in the stores -geared to appeal to them.I like something more than the primary colors.I want to live in a community where my neighbors haven't all painted their homes ,bright yellow ,purple or green.Sound fed up? Yes I guess I am.ButI am tired of paying increasingly higher property taxes ,so that more schools can be built to accomodate children coming (sometimes illegally, to this state) from families of ten or more,living in rented apartments(and by the way ,sir ,NOT paying taxes.We may have won the Battle of San Jancinto ,but we losing Texas now.
4 posted on 09/09/2001 12:06:51 PM PDT by Disgusted in Texas
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Luis Gonzalez
Regarding Castaneda's remarks - Mexico is already a "bridge nation", especially when it comes to non-Mexican illegal aliens and narcotics. I live in Mexico and I really enjoy the Mexican people; they're hard-working, industrious, lots of ingenuity, family-loving and for the most part very honest (these are the plain folks I'm talking about, not the Mexican cops or government officials). One characteristic which is both a plus and a minus is the Mexican trait of pride of heritage and pride of culture. Since I'm an American living in Mexico I will not offend the Mexican sense of nationalism by portraying an American flag decal on my vehicle nor will I fly an American flag in my yard. Yet when I visit my home state of N.C. I see the Mexican colors and flags flying. One Mexican restaurant I've noted flies the Mexican flag OVER the American flag. Rural North Carolinians are generally very courteous and friendly (not to mention patriotic) but this particular in-your-face gesture has caused some anti-Hispanic mutterings. I can understand the La Raza movement as well as the Aztlan movement and can understand Mexican sentiment that California, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona and Texas "rightly" belong to Mexico (I can understand but not agree)... however, apart from those mentioned states Mexico does not have a claim to any other state in the Union and it would be well for Mexicans to realize that no matter how much pride they have in their culture and heritage, once they're in the U.S. (at least certain states) they should show a little discretion as well as a little respect for those who's ancestors arrived 250 years ago and first settled.
5 posted on 09/09/2001 12:40:58 PM PDT by waxhaw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Disgusted in Texas
NOT paying taxes.

The rent includes provision, for the property owner to pay real estate taxes. Their everyday purchases include payment of sales taxes.

Last time I checked, Texas didn't have a state income tax. If the illegal immigrant is paid in a normal payroll, deductions will be made for FICA, state and federal unemployment and other items. If paid in cash, obviously not the same.

My point: they do pay some, if not all, taxes.

I'm a native of Southern California which, like Texas, is heavily impacted by legal and illegal immigration. A few years ago I got really angry. My anger didn't cause the immigrants to leave. For my serenity, I have had to learn to accept reality, even if I don't like it.

6 posted on 09/09/2001 12:41:09 PM PDT by truth_seeker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Luis Gonzalez
Canada, Great Brittan, France etc. are all ruled by commies. Of course George Bush is going to choose Vincente Fox as his best buddy. Well he should. To heck with the rest of them. If you don't think that this is a message that the rest of them better tone down their rhetoric and get with the program, you are a fool.

George Bush is no fool. You can bet former best buddy Jean Chretien up there in The Big Snow has crapped his diaper over all this.

7 posted on 09/09/2001 1:07:58 PM PDT by america76
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Disgusted in Texas
When they come here ,they bring Mexico with them.WE are expected to assimilate in to their culture.

I see the same thing here in AZ. When I was watching local news recently, a story came up about increased immigration from Mexico. The newscaster said, with a big smile on her face, "Well, I guess we'll all have to learn Spanish." EXCUSE ME, how about THEY learn ENGLISH! If I moved to Mexico, or Germany, or France, or wherever, I should expect them to learn English for me?????

From what I've seen, it is true that the Mexican workers work extremely hard. If they're doing jobs Americans won't do, fine and dandy. I just have a problem with ones that soak the taxpayers. We have illegals in our schools, everyone knows they are, nothing is done about it. I've said it on several threads before, Tucson alone spent $1.8 Million on services to illegals last year, and has a hospital nearly $50 Million in debt, despite a tax increase that was supposed to fix that. They're talking of shutting it down, what good will that do? It will just move the people who can't pay their bills to a different hospital. Domino effect, anyone? The only thing that will fix this is deportation, or massive tax increases to subsidize non-payers. Want to take a guess which one is going to happen?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me Mexico has plenty of resources, there's no excuse for all these people to be so destitute they have to sneak over here and risk dying of thirst to get a job. The problem is corrupt government. US cannot fix the un-fixable. They need to throw the bums out, and make Mexico a US-style Republic.

8 posted on 09/09/2001 1:09:16 PM PDT by FlyVet
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: gcruse
I had the original thread pulled after one response (I copied it above, by jhoffman) because the article got cut off.

Sorry for not making myself better understood.

9 posted on 09/09/2001 1:14:34 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Luis Gonzalez
Yeah. Mexico is influential. The same way communist China is influential.
10 posted on 09/09/2001 1:24:21 PM PDT by dennisw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: truth_seeker
--you have a technical point on local property taxes, but it falls short a little, I'll explain.

Property taxes get worked out over a long period of time and how properties are used. Residential properties get taxed at a rate appropriate to their "normal" use. A very common example here with illegal immigration. A single bedroom apartment might have one or two people living there, perhaps a third if it's a young married couple with a newborn in a crib. Those types of places are taxed that way. The local community infrastructure with water and sewer is built and maintained that way, by projected use, same with all the other services, roads, county buildings, schools,policing, garabge pickup-you name it. Now the difference is, and this is verifiable all over the country, is that a lot of times that same single bedroom apartment might have an entire extended family living there, a dozen people. No lie, a dozen. I have heard of even up to TWENTY people. They not only do not use the domicile for it's intended use, but the taxes paid are disproportionately and historically lower than what is needed, even though the "same" property tax is paid by the landlord. This causes all sorts of economic problems in the community. School budgets are based on that single bedroom apartment amount of people normally, not 6 extra kids in the school system from that one apartment, and the local hopital budget doubling with only the same amount of money coming in because these illegals get crap pay and zero benefits, including no insurance in most cases. On and on, more community policing required, higher incidence of fires maybe. It's a subsidised life for the illegals so that a few employers can skate without paying. a double subsidy of the two class economic system, being created right in front of us, and all over the country.

My county is going through this right now, a new and very expensive school has to be built from the influx of extended immigrant families in just the last two years. The population has increased a full third in just two years, primarily from illegal immigrants, or at least 1/2 or better. That's a lot of people coming in that quickly and honestly not contributing all that much in a normal amount to local economics except for a handful of people who really benfit from the illegals. It has drastically effected everything here, and not really for the better except a few of the employers profit margins at the expense of the people already here in general who normally would have provided the workforce for them, and whom also would have re-spent the bulk of the money in the community and not shipped the cash via western union out of the county and out of the country like they do to a large extent. There are signs in spanish here for exactly that reason, and you can see them friday night lining up to ship cash out of the county, while still enjoying the benefits of living here, it's subsidised. The "normal" tax rate is insufficient to pay for what was historically being paid for, for decades, with normal reasonable population growth. The county in the last election threatened either an increase in property tax or a rise in local sales tax, either way, the tax rate was going to go up, because the old formula ceased to be viable. We voted yes on the sales tax, but it still means everyone's tax went up regardless of any illegal immigrants much smaller amount of purchases, as they ship a huge amount of the money out of the community. If they even broke even with their total economic input this wouldn't have mattered whatsoever, no percentage increase would have been required, proving that illegal immigrants here are a net total economic loss, not any total benefit. We now pay a much higher total local tax rate because of this dual illegal immigrant and employer subsidy, this wink wink nod nod deal with local fatcats. and if you follow the tax food chain, it gets into state and federal expenses and taxation as well. It's a subsidy, pure and simple.

And this situation is all over the country by this almost complete ignoring of the laws that are in place, they are not enforced to any degree, and they were originally put there to prevent what is happening now.. It's a proportional economic thing, as well as social. You can read example after example, it's this creation of the master/serf two class system that is happening.

Massive undocumented or phony documented illegal immigration costs more/most people so that a much smaller few may make "more profits". They also make it so there are less and less entry level and middle level jobs for people naturally born here. Silicon valley here this ain't, there's so many normal jobs and that's it for all practical matters. You don't one day get laid off from a construction job and tomorrow waltz into a 6 figure white collar information technology job that doesn't exist. And now even those sorts of jobs are being effected. I have seen the anecdotal stories posted on this forum. There's something wrong going on here.

Normal controlled lower numerical level and legal immigration does not have this effect. That is the way it is supposed to be, how it was historically, and no one really has any problems with that method. There's the differences.

These are real quantitative problems, they aren't illusions or xenophobia. this isn't racist demogagouery. There are millions of examples, it's not "theory" it's real bread and butter economic issues, and real social assimilation and political transformation issues.

11 posted on 09/09/2001 1:48:04 PM PDT by zog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Luis Gonzalez jhofmann
Despite the stereotypes perpetuated by the media, bigots and tourists seeing the more seamy side of Mexico, the Mexican people are forward-thinking, more affluent than they are portrayed in the media and very industrious and energetic. They may nap in the afternoon but they are up before the crack of dawn. In the past few decades, their culture while still rooted in Spain has become Americanized.

Excellent points. Republicans had better expend more energy pursuing the hispanic vote to counter the block democrat (up to 90%) voting patterns of Blacks, Jews and Gays.

12 posted on 09/09/2001 1:52:00 PM PDT by jmp702
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: jmp702
Not to mention the extreme leftist political causes in which the aforementioned groups participate.
13 posted on 09/09/2001 1:56:16 PM PDT by jmp702
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: zog
These are real quantitative problems, they aren't illusions or xenophobia. this isn't racist demogagouery. There are millions of examples, it's not "theory" it's real bread and butter economic issues, and real social assimilation and political transformation issues.

I am 53 years old, and a native of Southern California. Along with Texas, we have perhaps the most and longest history of the immigration impacts that you mention.

When I was a schoolboy, there were "braceros" who came during various crop picking seasons. However, my mother has her elementary school pictures, from the 1930s in Whittier California. About half the class was, based on physical appearance, of Mexican ancestry.

In other words, it has been going on for a long time. Georgia is just one of several areas, further from the border, to be impacted. FYI, in Seattle, they have a Spanish language channel of the cable TV.

My cousins in Wyoming tell of Jackson Hole resort workers, coming from Mexico. The year-round population up there is very small, so relatively small numbers of immigrants are easily noticed. The permanent, American types don't like it. If you or I wanted those jobs, I'm sure the business owners would hire us, instead of the immigrant. Fact is, however, folks aren't rushing to Wyoming, to wash dishes for $5.00. That is except folks from Mexico.

Give Bush credit. He is stepping up to the plate, on a major issue. All of my ancestors came to North America, on wooden ships. The death rate often reached 25 percent of the passengers. So the relative hardship conditions you cite, horrendous by current standards, aren't much different than previous newcomers.

I know the difference between legal and illegal. I propose that many of our own ancestors would have risked being "illegal", to escape from the conditions they were leaving, and to get the reward that North America offered (not promised). Going further, any place in the world worth getting to, today, is facing immigration pressures. Namely, Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Canada, Australia to name a few.

I hope Bush comes up with something which is practical and fair. My purpose isn't to make excuses, or claim that the impacts should be overlooked. For the sake of my sanity, serenity and resting pulse rate, I have sought to see this through the prism of historical reality.

Maybe we need an "immigration tax" to be paid by the "guest worker", his employer, or both. The classification of "guest worker" would apply to ANYONE not yet a citizen. The proceeds of immigrant taxes would go to the communities. I lived in Germany in 1969/70, which then had guest workers. Maybe we should review our own programs, from earlier times, and policies of other countries. Our own policies of recent years have certainly failed.

14 posted on 09/09/2001 3:53:02 PM PDT by truth_seeker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: truth_seeker
--I think we already have all the laws. we already have legal immigration laws and non resident alien worker laws. a lot of foreigners follow those laws. As to the jackson hole ski resort millionaires, seems like they coudl all things considered pay a scoosh better than 5 dollars an hour for hard labor. I've been a pearl diver in restaurants, it's hard nasty work, those fatcats make it on the 50 dollar champagne and the 20 buck steaks over there in rich guy ski resort ville. what is a nights lodging there and an average fancy restaurant meal? They can afford more, but they know they can just get away with it. I have no sympathy for them, let them get busted and pay the 5 grand fine, the actual law that is in place. Next time they'll pay enough to attract a local to work there. Difference in a ten an hour job in a fancy restaurant and 5 an hour is another 50 cents a customer or something, it's negligible. Probably not even 50 cents. Those owners are just being nasty elitist cheapskates. A mom amd pop diner, 2.99$ 3 things on a plate, 10 customers a day place is one thing, but I've worked top of the line restaurants where 100$ tips were the norm to the waiters, and the owners had mansions and yachts and very expensive "habits'. I've seen some sorry cheapa$$ people in that business. and I certainly remember what I got paid there, ha! Ya, I worked for cheap, and hard, too, but was glad to leave. The owners are always incredulous they can't 'get good help' either. It's an excuse most of the time.

Anyway, good luck in cal. I think this next century will be a lot different from the last century there, I hope it doesn't wind up like Zimbabwe or Guatemala. Give it ten years, see what happens.

15 posted on 09/09/2001 5:01:36 PM PDT by zog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson